Nevermind and Ten turn 20

This year marks the 20th anniversary of two of the most celebrated albums of our generation: Nirvana's Nevermind, which many regard as "The album that changed everything", and Pearl Jam's Ten, the touchstone modern rock album. I am thankful that I am old enough to me in my young prime when this enormous rush of the music scene came in.

It wasn't just the grunge from Seattle, though. KRS One, NWA and Public Enemy brought in a flood of amazing rap, and Dr. Dre's golden touch would go on to introduce us to Snoop, Nate Dogg (RIP), Eminem and 50 Cent amongst many other successes. Rave Culture and dance music exploded internationally. Industrial, Country, even eventually fucking SWING music, all hugely popular. Even my own music put out shitloads of great music I loved. There were even music videos on TV. LOTS of 'em. Music influenced the way almost everybody dressed: Grunge kids, headbangers, homies, goths, new hippies, all influenced by their favourite artists. It was a pretty cool time.

Focus:Feel free to celebrate the rebirth of the music scene in the 90's, or whatever music made you first truly love music.

 

This is the song that started my love of music. Before Jason Mraz, I liked musicians that the people around me were listening to. The 90's were a time of boy bands and Spice Girls for me (keep in mind, I turned 14 in 2000) but this song came out around the time that I actually considered music rather than just singing along with everyone else.

 

I agree with this, even though it's probably a biased opinion.

Personally I've always resented Grunge music simply because of the timing of it's arrival. I was 12 in 1991 so I was just beginning to learn the type of music I liked and the arrival of Grunge put me a good 5 years behind. Since Grunge & Alternative was what was on the radio I bought albums such as Greenday's Dookie, Live's Throwing Copper, and Bush's Sixteen Stone. I listened to them a lot and the harder, faster songs where always my favorites. When I discovered Offspring's Smash it immediately became my favorite album (up until then). Finally when I was around 16 I started hanging out with a crowd that listened to truly harder rock music like White Zombie.

It was at that point that I finally discovered Metallica and knew I found my musical path. I think the first Metallica album I got was Black, but I truly became a fan of their music when I got Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets, two absolute masterpiece albums in the annals of metal. I became a true devotee to metal from then on.

The final step to the music path I'm on now happened in 2002 when I heard this incredible song that combined operatic vocals, symphonic sound, and the hardness of metal all in one. I was completely blown away by the sound. I found out from a true metalhead buddy of mine that the song was called Stargazer from a Finnish band called Nightwish. Literally as soon as I learned the name of the song and band I called just about every music store in the Twin Cities to see if any had anything by Nightwish. I found a place in a suburb twenty miles away and rushed to get whatever albums they had. I was so enthralled by their sound that I drove back home to find any other stores in the area that had anything by them. I found a little music shop in St. Paul that had some, and immediately when there to buy what they had. It was the only time in my life when I loved a song/band so much I absolutely had to have an album right fucking now.

Along the way I've pretty much embraced a lot of metal's breadth. I own every Metallica album, most Iron Maiden albums, and several Black Sabbath/Ozzy albums. My true love is symphonic/operatic/power metal, however. The grunge/alternative music I listened to when I was a teenager and didn't know about anything else hasn't touched my CD player in over ten years. I couldn't even tell you where it was or if I even still had it.

 

Think I saw the same special. Did you hear the separate parts in it where Dave Grohl and Butch vig GO OFF on how great of a singer they thought Cobain was ("pitch perfect with a scream that sounded like he was boiling nails" is a near direct quote from Grohl)? I'd agree that people like Vedder or Cornell are better singers (certainly more powerful and wide ranging), but the guy could sing, and I struggle to see how you'd call that unique of a voice overrated.

As for songwriting abilities, jebus dude, are there any rock songs since that era that even come close to the lyrics he penned? "You know You're Right" was recorded in 1994, came out almost ten years later and blew everything away. I realize the early 2000's were a fairly easy time to blow new rock music away, but if that song came out today, it would still stand out.

Not sure which 70's hard rock bands you're implying Nirvana re-hashed, since everything I've read from people who know music way better than me has talked about how their songs were a clear mix of modern (for that time) punk and old-school pop (the Beatles/John Lennon being a huge influence on Cobain, as you would have seen in the special).

To be clear, I think the album/band is overrated in the sense that every piece of great art is overrated by its most die hard fans, but to me, something like Dave Grohl's awesomeness just goes to show how great Nirvana was, since he was focusing his awesomeness into his primary instrument as their drummer. I can totally understand someone not liking Cobain's voice, but denying its uniqueness just sounds like hating for no reason, and I would argue that we've seen an incredibly small number of rock songwriters who even come close to his lyrical ability.

Would you care to back up the forgetable-ness of the album with specific songs? I honestly don't see any dead weight on it.

Just re-read your post...In Utero was forgettable too? Seriously? I must have been listening to the wrong rock music since then, cuz I can't think of any band that's put an album out with the crazy shit they did on there.

 

I was already a fan of NIN since 1990, but no album has ever shook me the way The Downward Spiral did. And nothing ever will. There is simply nothing like it, no sound can be recreated to replicate it, and no singer/songwriter captures the tortured artist like Trent Reznor. It's an all-out assault on the senses: the heaviest metal, the hardest dance beats and the loudest drums combined with the most wacked out, unimaginable synthesizer tones ever created in the history of music. This album is the reason I love music so much. An incredible soundtrack of sex, gore, and loss.


And yes, you DO still grind co-eds on the dancefloor when this song comes on. Don't fucking lie.

 

Temple of the Dog

A fusion of all things good.

 

These guys have been selling out arenas for nearly twenty years up here, and only AC/DC sells out faster. They were enormous when I was in high school, and had almost a unanimous following at my school. Everyone I knew loved The Hip, myself included. They still put out albums every 2-3 years, but don't nearly have the edge they used to.

But this song truly rocks.

 

In the early 90's I had terrible taste. I redeemed it a little with stuff like Queen and ACDC, but the music I really liked was truly terrible Hip Hop - I actually did Boom Shake the Room for a talent show. Then at some point, I developed a tiny scrap of taste and found Live's 'Throwing Copper', was one of my all time great albums. For all that I was disappointed by everything they released afterward. Offspring's Smash was much the same. I still keep both albums around for road trips - and avoid everything released after those albums by either band. I was hugely into Nirvana and Pearl Jam, and then Sound Garden and Pantera, Metallica, Pennywise, The Drop Kick Murphy's and Rage Against the Machine and Tool completed my soundtrack to the mid 90's. Korn, Marilyn Manson, Portishead and Primus were big for me in the late 90's. I also listened to The Pixies a lot through the 90's.

In the late 90's I also forked out into electronica, and got way into Miss Kitten and the Hacker and Amon Tobin. Propeller head and Aphex Twin, Nine inch Nails, Public Domain, Kraftwerk and Prodigy in a huge way. That electro fixation lasted for a long time - but hard rock and electro remain the two big passions for me.

 

I was largely oblivious to music until I turned fourteen. I made a decision to learn more about music, and downloaded a Rage Against the Machine discography (I had seen them mentioned in Time Magazine).



Holy shit. I listened to nothing else for two years straight. I was never as amped on life as I was at that point in my lifetime. I can't listen to them for extended periods nowadays, but the tracks hold up great.

At 16, I got into hip-hop.



Heaven and hell, rap legend, presence is felt, and of course N-A-S are the letters that spell...




The first time I heard this album, I listened to it on repeat for four days.

I got into other stuff afterwards, like garage rock, doo-wop, the Rat Pack, contemporary classical, dubstep, etc, etc. But those were the first things that pushed me into the world of music.

 

I was talking about how in the early 2000's -- nearly ten years after their last song was recorded -- it made the music of that day (again, almost ten years later) sound like shit. As for music of Nirvana's day -- these musical 'midgets' you speak of -- it's pretty well known that Nirvana led the way in making 80's hair metal irrelevant, including a band called Guns 'n Roses, and they actually knocked this guy named Michael Jackson out of the number one Billboard Chart spot. You likely know more about music than I do, and if you personally think late 80's rock like Motley Crue (and G'nR) sucked I COMPLETELY agree, but I wouldn't call them midgets, and I think it's a stretch to call a band that knocked MJ out of top spot overrated.

So you like their singles and that's it? I mean, great tunes, for sure, but to not give any credit for the rest sounds like hating. And how many albums even have four singles that are that strong?

I'd agree with that point, but disagree that it makes them overrated. LOTS of bands TRIED to copy them for 5-10 years after, but they pretty much all ended up sounding like Creed. To me, that's a mark of greatness much more than overrated-ness.

Could write some killer pop hooks, but no, never heard anyone consider him an all-time guitarist, and I wouldn't either.

Again, I would consider that a compliment, because who the fuck COULD emulate that unique of a voice/scream? That no one else even tries is a testament to his voice, in my opinion.

So because other bands have written albums about angst and heartbreak, that makes it weak? I always thought muddy, tough-to-decipher lyrics were a good thing.

You wouldn't consider Grohl one of the top drummers of the last 20 years? Really?

I never considered how often I hear a band on any radio station to be the test of whether they were great or not.

Funny, that was Bob Dylan's favourite Nirvana song. He also said, of Cobain's lyrical ability, that he's "got heart". Take that for it's worth, I guess.

I have listened to all those bands but, as I bolded, I was talking about bands that have come AFTER Nirvana not having the balls or ability to write the crazy shit they did on In Utero.

 

I'm very grateful to have been around and old enough during this musical era. I was able to see pretty much every relevant band at least once in concert some 3-4 times. Between the late 80's evolution of rap and hip/hop, the early grunge, the industrial along with some really good metal it was a great time for music. This may piss off some country purists, but I actually like the Garth Brooks led era of country that was happening at that time as well.

Between 92 and 98, I was able to see everything live from Beastie Boys, Tool, Nirvana, Alice in Chains, Pearl Jam, Pink Floyd in 94 and Garth Brooks among countless others. There were all sorts of major festivals happening all the time. Add to this the amount of good bands from the 70's that were still around and fairly relevant. I had to have seen over 200 concerts in those 6 years alone. I don't feel like this last 10 years has had nearly the level that the 90's had.

Although Nevermind is considered the more ground breaking album, I think Ten is one of the very rare perfect albums. There are many great albums that have 3/4/5+ great songs on them but not many can boast pretty much every song being awesome. "Why Go" is probably the only song that isn't truly great but it's still not a bad song.

 

To me Nirvana represents one of the last great bands at the turn of time when good music died. I mean the 90s weren't that bad. There were a few good, not great bands at least. Korn, foo fighters, incubus, the offspring, collective soul (who is pretty damn good if you can get past the christian feel good vibe of their lyrics), and a few others were legit. However, none of these bands stand up to the greats of the 60s, 70s, and 80s. Bands like the beatles, rolling stones, boston, etc blow them out of the water. Flash forward to the present. Let's face it, the 2000s has been complete shit and it's not getting any better. I keep waiting for the next great band to make their arrival, but sadly it never happens. I feel like we're living in the dark ages of music and we're going to be here for awhile. The only really good band left I can think of that consistently puts out good albums is the Red Hot Chili Peppers, but I'd hardly call them a 2000s band.

 

I'm guessing you're not a fan of garage rock (The Strokes, The White Stripes)? Or dubstep, glitch-hop, or thrash (DFA 1979), or old-time string band (OCMS), or electronica (house, and electronica-inspired artists like M.I.A. and a million indie rock bands), or hip-hop (too many to count*)?
Even soul had a(nother) resurgence (Adele, Amy Winehouse, Raheem DeVaughn, Gnarls Barkley, Cee-Lo, Robin Thicke), and singing-songwriting is still viable (Matthew Santos, Andrew Bird, etc etc fucking etc). Just because your preferred genre has been shit - and it's called classic rock for a reason - doesn't mean music as a whole has been shit.

It sounds like you're trying to make a "kids these days" argument because you think it'll be more accepted around here, but yeah, good music ain't dead. I like Nirvana, Pearl Jam and RHCP, but it sounds like the only one living in the "dark ages of music" is you.

Spoiler

Music will be ok, I think.

*The best works of Common, Kanye West, Jay-Z [the chrysalis of his best-known style], Eminem, Clipse, Lil' Wayne, Lupe Fiasco, J fuckin' Dilla, the evolution of the Roots from old-school East Coast hip-hop to increasingly electronica and downbeat experimentalism. Not to mention the underground scene blowing the fuck up via the Internet, where aspiring guys like CunninLynguists, Drake, Childish Gambino, The Kid Daytona, Kid Cudi, Odd Future etc. found their fanbases.

 

I should have clarified I meant rock, not music as a whole. I could care less for rap and I'm not in a position to judge how that's been lately. The White Stripes are decent, but I don't really enjoy most of the stuff you listed. I have no idea what you mean by "kids these days" argument. I'm just saying modern rock is terrible, which it is compared to what came before. I know a LOT of people who share my sentiment, I didn't say everyone did. If you think these new age artists are as enjoyable as the great music from earlier decades then good for you, it just means you don't have to suffer like I do.

 

From what source do you listen to most of your music? I mean, metal is doing great and hard rock has a lot of good acts; you just have to look for it. Personally I think the conglomeration of radio stations is absolutely killing the popular music scene because the music that you hear on almost all radio stations is mediocre at best. It honestly pisses me off when I hear the crap that gets played on the radio knowing there's a lot of good music out there of the genre whatever station I'm listening to is focused.

 

I like Ten a lot, but it's worth noting that it led us down the path to Nickelback, Creed, Bush, and every other shitty "post-grunge" band. THIS BLOOD IS ON YOUR GRAVELLY VOICE, VEDDER.

 

I am actually not a big fan of Ten, or Pearl Jam in general. "Black" is probably one of my top ten favorite songs of all time, and "Even Flow" and "Jeremy" are good, but I can't stand the rest of the album.

I agree that Nevermind has about 2-3 good songs and the rest of the album is forgettable.

'90s grunge is better than most of the music that has come out since circa 2000, but on the whole I can take it or leave it.