Wednesday Serious Thread: Anonymity and the Internet

If you're on the internet with any regularity, there's a decent chance you stop by Reddit and/or Gawker.

If you stop by one of those two networks, there's a very good chance you've heard about the Violentacrez situation.

For the uninitiated (but we are the initiated, aren't we TiB?), reddit allows users to create subreddits about basically anything. Anything that fits the definition of "legal" is a go, which has lead to subreddits promoting racism, homophobia, misogyny, and necrophilia. One of the most notorious in recent memory was known as Creepshots, where redditors could post pictures they surreptitiously took of women in public, women who were often as young as 12. It got especially negative press when it came out that one poster was the high school teacher of the women he'd been photographing.

The most active moderator for the least palatable forums was a gentleman who only went by the name Violentacrez. Until Adrien Chen, a journalist (ish) for Gawker outed his identity in a long "unmasking."

Reddit, known for its strict support of Free Speech, responded by banning all Gawker links sitewide. While they later admitted this position was a mistake and reversed it, many popular subreddits continue the ban in solidarity with their outed member.

Focus: What right to privacy do trolls have? Where is the line, and at what point is anonymity no longer sacred?

Anti-focus: How well do you guard your real-life identity on the internet? Is there anything there you're not proud of?

Sub Anti-focus: Yes there is CharlesJohnson.


Feel free to be funny, but be somewhat respectful, and don't turn this into a political diarrheacane.

 

I'm not too concerned about people like Michael Brutsch. Sure, he wasn't doing anything illegal, and one can say that he was only re-posting pictures available from elsewhere and not actually procuring any photos. But a distributor and importer of pornography isn't very far up morally from a pornographer. If you see what I mean. This is doubly true when it comes to pictures of underaged women taken without their consent.

That said, given the way these things work, how do we know that Michael Brutsch is violentacrez? I mean, who's to say that the journalist isn't doing a smear job on some random guy? Perhaps we can agree that this time we know that Chen was right. What about the next time? And the time after that? What happened to trial by a jury of one's peers? The guy's lost his job and, let's face it, is essentially unhireable in any respectable line of work from here on out. I mean, let's face it, this article could have said that Joe Smith who lives at 123 Main Street in Springfield, Illinois was violentacrez and it's not as though any of us are in a position to discredit it.

And, on another level, we have the fine denizens of the board here. The worst thing going around this board are dixiebandit's bush shots. A lot of us use crude humour and sarcasm that we don't really mean, but use because, well, the internet's fun like that. Some of our members have posted revealing photos of themselves that they wouldn't want their bosses to see (and thank god they do!). My memory is hazy sometimes, but I recall that one member said he had received threatening private messages from another member (guess who...) containing his work information and address, including his boss' e-mail address, with the rather explicit threat that his boss would find out about his online habits. That's clearly harassment and blackmailing. But does it necessarily stop being harassment and blackmailing because the object is an unsavoury character?

 

Privacy is a huge matter for me. It really stumps me how people can be so transparent online. Their Facebook profiles lay everything but their address out for them, their comings and goings are now public record. That shit is TERRIFYING. Especially for someone like me who enjoys foul humor, sharing foul humor, the absurd and surreal grotesque, and who has a very liberal approach to free speech. There is no way to protect yourself now unless you abstain completely. If you have naked pictures, you better not send them to anyone or your face better not be in them (*cough cough*). Even if you deny FB users from tagging you in photos, your face is still up there doing god knows what in public. Same goes if you're an idiot spouting hate garbage. Hey, it's your right. It's also now not a private matter so you'll probably get fired for outing yourself as a bigot.

No topic to me is sacred, no discussion should not be talked about, even if it is uncomfortable or dangerous. The grotesque fascinates me. Stupidity fascinates me, and sometimes, those things make me laugh a lot. Some topics, so inherently soul crushing, demand respect, at least before the tasteless jokes. Then there are people like the pedophile Anonymous outed for terrorizing a 15 year old until she killed herself (she flashed her goods on the web, this guy used the screenshots to blackmail her).

That's the line. The cold separation between saying what you want and legality. They have nothing to do with taste. Speech that goes beyond being an asshole into pedophilia, harassment, stalking, intimidation, the like. Those actions are illegal. You can ignore a troll, but under no circumstance should someone be expected to put up with anything like the above. That's not speech. That's a fomented personal attack. People need now, more than ever, to realize the consequence of actions. Because it seems most folks bring it upon themselves. Cyber bullying? I have no answer. Persevere, kid.

Someone said you didn't like? Boo fucking hoo. Get over yourself, or God FUCKING FORBID you educate yourself to making effective responses and opinions. OR IGNORE IT. You have the right to do that as well. Someone posted a sick picture? Again, don't look at it. Nothing pisses me off more than whiny people who think they're exceptional or their sensibilities should control content. Piss off. Some people think it's funny. Deal. I personally hate trolls that post animal cruelty shots. Guess what? I don't look at it.

The one thing that churned my stomach with the reddit douche is his posting of public photos of underage girls. While it isn't illegal, it's sleazy. They may be in a public place, but that seems like the first act of a pedophile. There's an expectation of privacy in public, at least to me despite what the law books say, especially for minors. He can post those photos (original content or not). Sure. But I also have zero problem with someone emailing his work telling him he likes to put jailbait photos on the internet for sick perverts. Though ghetto brings up a good point about knowing for sure an internet handle is the actual person you're about to smear.

 

I keep my facebook on lockdown, but my Twitter is not secure enough. Also while I strip all metadata from photos I post on reddit, someone properly motivated could probably tie my account to me with minimal effort (mainly as I've posted my reddit username on message boards including my online business - which is a whole different privacy hole - and people could through my profile find my pot smoking habit)

Last week I decided to see the "deep web" using Tor to anonymize myself. I was sold on it as a dark place where bad things happen, but also a raw culture like the early internet with good discussion and interesting new frontiers with little advertisement. That's bullshit; its just child porn and drugs, stay the fuck off Tor. Actually those sites have changed my mind. those fuckers should be outed.
I didn't click any links because I didn't want to be arrested (I stuck with "The Hidden Wiki" which explains sites and links) but there are seriously message boards and guides for seducing young relatives, and that's just weapons grade fucked up

Other curiousities of Tor:
Lots of places to buy drugs in bitcoin.
Lots of hitmen. Not a whole lot of 'background' but usually theyre saying "20 000 a hit" or similar.
Hyper-crazy libertarians. I'm talking far more crazy/tinfoil hat than your usual Ron Paul fanboy

 

Trolls cross the line when the law is broken. As for the other questionable--often deplorable--things that aren't illegal are concerned, the internet is based on the the notion that, while distasteful at times, its a place for all viewpoints.

That said, just like freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequence, the same can be said for anything that you do online. But the problem is that there are no rules regarding the consequences. We want the internet to be free, but we also want it to have rules to protect people. There is no internet constitution, though. No court system. So if a teacher is (allegedly) taking creeper pictures of his students and someone wants to out him, there's no one there to say, "Where's the proof it was him and he's not being framed by a student he flunked on the last test?" because it makes for a shitty headline for a gossip news site. And since most people revel in watching someone go down for doing something terrible, the first natural reaction is to vilify that person until the masses hear otherwise, with the people who are asking for more evidence silenced or accused of protecting the pseudo-pedophile.

Alt. Focus:
Which is why I try to keep a low profile on the internet. Yeah, I've got pictures on Facebook, but I've sifted through them and I don't post anything I wouldn't be comfortable printing out and showing my boss. I have things set up so I have to approve everything that is connected to me before it appears, and only friends and family have any meaningful access to what I've got there. It also helps that I use FB sparingly, because 99% of the time, I just don't see the point in sharing the minutiae of my llfe.

I also pride myself on not being a sleezy, insufferable douche who would become the target for anything negative. Sure, I crack jokes, but rarely at the expense of others. When it is at someone else's expense, it's because I know that person understands I'm just messing around (though that may very well be limited to this board).

There's nothing connected to me online that I'm not proud of, but I wouldn't want to have a talk with my mother about my porn watching habits, either.

 

I'd still take that one step further to say that the line is crossed when the troll's intent is to victimize. Even if what they're doing isn't technically against the law, if their intent is to cause emotional distress to another individual by their actions, then their perceived right to anonymity is invalid. Outing a teacher who takes "creepshots" of his students to post on the internet is not a bad thing, especially since he’s in a position of authority. If they "got the wrong guy" then unfortunately it's up to the person being accused (teacher) to defend themselves (legally, etc) just as they would have to if anyone brought false charges against them for anything.

My boss said something to me many years ago that still rings true with most of the things I do in life. "Don't do or say anything that you'd be afraid to admit to or repeat in front of a jury." All in all, that's some pretty damn solid advice. Not always applicable, but a good guideline. I've done stupid things in my life, but I'm not afraid to admit and own up to them. I do not walk around, camera phone in hand, waiting to stick it up some unsuspecting woman's skirt while she's walking up the stairs or to take a picture of her walking down the sidewalk in yoga pants. That's pretty fucking sad. Christ, women have enough to worry about than to need to add "creepshooters" to the list.

I'm not afraid of anyone finding out who I am on the internet because I don't leave a trail of shitty deeds behind me. I don't pretend to be anyone I'm not...internet or real life. That doesn't mean I wouldn't be pissed if I found out my life was the Truman Show and everyone was watching everything I do. I do have an expectation of privacy in various areas of my life, and although I'd not be afraid of admitting I masturbate, I don't need video of me spanking it to Jenna Haze while whispering "take that dick you little whore" floating around anywhere. That's why I've never, ya know, recorded it for anyone.

 

Focus: If I were to stand on the street corner in Harlem wearing a white sheet and offering one way tickets to Africa for the local's I'd get my ass verbally handed to me at best, and more likely and ass kicking; but under the First Amendment it'd be legal as long as I didn't verbally threaten anyone with violence. If I started voicing such opinions on here, it'd also be legal but I'd also get banned pretty quick.

It's a shitty example, but it sums up my thoughts on internet trolls fairly well. It's the glory of anonymity and the God-given right to say anything you damn well please with the knowledge that voicing certain thoughts carry consequences. Trolls have every right to conduct themselves online in whatever fashion they chose; and it's up to the site administrator to allow them to voice racist thoughts (Stormfront), or to drop the ban hammer (like this site or most forums in general).

Far as I'm concerned there is no line to free-speech online or off-line; NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) for another example. I don't care if a bunch of kiddie-diddlers form up an organization, and hold meetings about their topic of choice. The line is drawn when they invade the privacy of a child, (i.e. viewing, manufacturing, or trading child pornography), or attempt a sexual assault on a child. Same deal online, talk all you want but when you drag the lives of others into peril or blatantly break the law you lose the right to anonymity immediately.

 

I'm not really that concerned about my identity on the internet because as I see it, the worst possible people already have all of my most personal information: the government/law enforcement agencies. Those are the people who can REALLY fuck you up.

As far as everyone else goes, I'm not scared. What are they going to do? Come to my house and start shit? Do you really want to take on an armed Texan on his home turf?
It's not like I'm posting my bank account/social security number or anything.

Hmm, nothing springs to mind...

 

"OMG you guys, this internet creep is totally jerking off to sexualized images of women taken without their consent! What a terrible horrible person. Now here's some leaked celebrity sex tapes and upskirt photos for you to jerk off to" ~ Gawker Media

I have no sympathy for ViolentAcrez, but the idea that any of this is anything more than a gossip rag hit piece aimed squarely at people's emotional outrage centers is absurd.

 

Internet trolls often seem to miss the second half of this quote. The idea that you should be able to post 'creepshots' with no accountability is ridiculous.

I have taken reasonable precautions to anonymize my internet usage; my FB is under a fake name, linked to an email address under a fake name, and I have only ~50 friends, all of whom I see on a regular basis with one or two exceptions. That said, I'm under no illusions that my shields would hold off a determined effort to fuck with my life for more than a moment or two, so mostly I rely on not being a dick. I figure the best way to avoid people screwing with you is not to give them a reason to do it in the first place.

Conversely, I internet stalk people quite a lot, and it astonishes me how many people just lay all their personal information out there. Addresses, phone numbers, pictures of their kids, schedules of sporting activities, etc. Call me paranoid, but showing the entire world pictures of your kids and describing where they will be just strikes me as Amazon.com for pedophiles. And don't even get me started on the number of people I know who host pictures of themselves obviously drugged out of their minds. One of my friends is a very private guy, but a nightclub happened to take his picture while we were out and hosted it on their website. For a while the google image search for 'drum n bass <my home town>' would show his picture on the front page, which freaked him right the fuck out. Similarly, there's a girl at my work who dj's under her own name and a google search of her name turns up endless pictures of her trashed out of her mind. I occasionally wonder what on earth she's going to do if she ever wants to get a job that's a bit higher up in the world than her current admin position. People are weird.

 

Welcome to adulthood, where you have to take responsibility for your actions. In my opinion this kind of thing is good for the internet, way too many people act like assholes because they think no one can figure out who they are.

 

This is true. However, it's not just TMZ and Gawker and famous people. I intentionally don't have a Facebook account; yet, my picture, sometimes captioned with my name, is on Facebook in a number of places. Friends and family members who do have Facebook accounts feel like it is just fine to post pictures of me in group shots and candid shots from parties or some type of gathering, without my permission. That shit pisses me off, quite frankly. On more than one occasion, I've had a mutual friend say something like, "Hey, looks like you had a good time at Thanksgiving." "What?" "Yeah, so-and-so posted some stuff on Facebook, and you looked like you were having fun with that lampshade on your head." I mean, shit, there were 9 people in that room, and it was late at night. I figured it was just between us.

 

This. I too refuse to open a Facebook account, yet my wife and kids have them and naturally, I'm in pictures on their pages. My wife posted pics from my grad school commencement and between the cap & gown and my large round glasses, it came as no surprise that I was getting congratulatory emails that also drew a comparison of me to the owl in the old Tootsie Pop commercials.

I just don't like the idea of putting myself "out there" like that and feel no need to post about my every meal, bowel movement etc. for all to read. Sure, I've posted enough info on here in bits and pieces that if someone was that interested in getting my name they could with some diligent research, but I suspect most of you have better things to do with your time. But if you do and are planning a visit, pm me first. Dixiebandit isn't the only armed Texan on the board.

 

What I find the most fascinating about this is how this increasing exposure of our private lives makes it harder for people as a whole to separate their true natures from their public demeanors, which is probably a good thing. It's amazing the amount of self-righteous hypocrisy that exists that enables someone to discriminate or look down on someone else for the exact same behavior they themselves exhibit (because getting drunk is such outlandish behavior, right?) simply because someone got their picture taken and someone else didn't.

 

I just shuddered realising I was reading a Gawker article.

Focus: I don't think anyone really has privacy on the net, so trolls beware if they anger people so, there could be consequences to your actions. Even though it's set to 'private,' I treat my facebook page as a public forum for what thoughts I want to express, etc. If I didn't want people to see it, it wouldn't be on there. I don't know if anyone's actively stalked me, but there's not much to find, I'm pretty boring.

Also, I don't really have a concept of being a "troll" in that broad of a sense. I don't have a problem causing annoyance to people if I think they deserve it (ie, baiting homophobes or racists and playing on their prejudices), but actively seeking attention by causing outrage at morally questionable posts? I just don't get it. Maybe I'm a freak, just because I don't wanna fuck with people for no good reason. I probably have done in the past, but I it's not an aim of mine, it's not attractive to me in the least.

 

That Reddit dude is front Page on CNN.

<a class="postlink" href="http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/internet-troll-apology/index.html?hpt=hp_c1" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.cnn.com/2012/10/18/us/intern ... ?hpt=hp_c1</a>

Interesting. I think I really hate Reddit cowering to pressure. Fuck you, people. You don't have to like it. I hate this apologist climate. What seriously chaffs my ass is CNN digging this up. This dude is not special. He just called out for it. What about the people that are outed as violent criminals online? CNN ignores them largely unless the buzzword "cyber bullying" is attached.

 

I think this is a bit unfair- yes, there are plenty of people who post that shit, but there are also plenty who don't. Facebook is essentially a message board that all of my friends post on, just stupid pictures and comments and the like. Anybody who posts about every meal or boring shit about their relationship is promptly deleted. It's fairly easy to use as just a medium to talk between friends when you aren't physically near each other and easy to keep out the trash, so I don't think this argument really applies.

 

I have no idea why the fuck I can't properly embed a video, but it's worth the watch.

 

That is some mighty fine advertising right there.