Adult Content Warning

This community may contain adult content that is not suitable for minors. By closing this dialog box or continuing to navigate this site, you certify that you are 18 years of age and consent to view adult content.

2010 NFL Season

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by shegirl, Sep 3, 2010.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. dubyu tee eff

    dubyu tee eff
    Expand Collapse
    Thinks he has a chance with Christina Hendricks...

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2009
    Messages:
    1,383
    This reminds me. Does anyone know the status of Gus Frerotte?
     
  2. Maltob14

    Maltob14
    Expand Collapse
    Space Cadet

    Reputation:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    Yeah, out due to another self-induced concussion.
     
  3. manihack

    manihack
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    1
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    257
    <a class="postlink" href="http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Randy-Moss-trade-New-England-Patriots-Minnesota-Vikings-100510" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Rand ... ngs-100510</a>

    Moss close to being a Viking again. The way the article is written it sounds like as soon as he knocks out a contract with the Vikes it's a done deal.
     
  4. Kampf Trinker

    Kampf Trinker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    324
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,690
    Location:
    Minnesota
    God loves somebody in Minnesota. Is it time for packer fans to worry? They were talking about this on the radio all day, but no one really believed it. Favre has wanted to play with Moss for years, and now New England's going to let him go after three phenomenal seasons. This was supposed to be the vikings last year for a run at the super bowl, so I guess they might as well go out in a blaze of offensive fire power. What happens when Rice comes back towards the end of the season? Let's see, you have Brett Favre throwing to Moss and Rice, with Berrrian and Harvin allocated to the 3/4 spots. Then you have AP in the backfield. Not to mention a defense that still looks good and hasn't given up more than 14 points this season. Fucking Christ. I'd like to be happy about Favre's shaky start, but trying to predict what he'll do next week is like guessing the price of gas 20 years from now. THIS IS OUR YEAR VIKINGS. YOU WILL NOT STOP US.
     
  5. Trakiel

    Trakiel
    Expand Collapse
    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

    Reputation:
    245
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,167
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    I'm still digesting this news. Randy Moss is probably my all-time favorite Viking and (as long as the Vikes don't give up too much) I'm excited as hell at the prospect of having him back in purple. Even with Moss I still don't think they have enough to make it to the Superbowl this year unless Favre completely turns his game around but after four games into the season so far it looks like the NFC may be wide open so who knows.
     
  6. Kampf Trinker

    Kampf Trinker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    324
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,690
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Other sources are saying the deal is just warming up...

    <a class="postlink" href="http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/news/story?id=5653186" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nfl/ne ... id=5653186</a>

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81b1a1a9/article/patriots-vikings-discuss-deal-to-send-moss-back-to-minnesota?module=HP_headlines" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... _headlines</a>

    How much do you all think he's worth? What do the vikings have to give up? How long can you contract Moss at his age?
     
  7. iczorro

    iczorro
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    107
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    3,541
    Location:
    The Island
    I'd give him 4 years at say, $13 mil, 6 gauranteed. Give the Pats a 4th and maybe a lower tier guy.

    The possibility gives me wood, though.
     
  8. Maltob14

    Maltob14
    Expand Collapse
    Space Cadet

    Reputation:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    You still have Favre throwing to him...
     
  9. D26

    D26
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    110
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,305
    This is an interesting scenario. On the one hand, Moss wants a long term deal and guaranteed money. On the other hand, after this year, Moss can't be sure he'll have a good QB throwing him the ball. We all know that when Moss has a good QB, he is one of the best, most electric receivers in football. When he doesn't have a good QB throwing him the ball, he is average, at best (see: Oakland Raider years).

    If the Vikings sign Moss, they'd better hope they can keep Favre around. If they have Tavaris Jackson is throwing to him and not hitting him regularly, Moss is going to shut down and just cut off routes and stop trying on plays like he did in Oakland.

    The Vikings are going to give Moss a lot of money to play for several more years, but make no mistake, this deal is strictly about this year. The Vikings are really putting a lot out there to win THIS YEAR, and if they don't, I shutter to think of how much bitching and moaning will come from the Minnesota area, especially if Moss falls off after this year (as I suspect he will if Favre doesn't return). Moss has shown that he can be exceptionally productive with a good QB, and decidedly mediocre with a shitty QB. Moss has also shown that in a situation where he is getting paid but he knows his QB sucks, he will not try as hard. I don't want to say quit, but he certainly won't push himself the way he has in New England.

    The funny part about this deal is that it really isn't doing New England any favors for their prospects to win this year. Moss is New England's most explosive offensive weapon and their biggest deep threat. Take away Moss from that team, and that allows teams to shade their coverage towards Welker, essentially taking away Tom Brady's safety blanket, which Welker has been for the past few years. There really isn't anyone even close to the caliber of Moss on the Pats to replace Moss as a deep-threat or a true number 1 receiver. In my opinion, by trading Moss away, the Pats are conceding 2 things:

    1) They have zero intention of resigning Moss, and they know that Moss is going to be a personality problem going forward, with the potential to shut down mentally towards the end of the season, and

    2) They have no serious playoff aspirations this year. That isn't to say that they don't want to win. They do, all teams do. What I do think is that those in the front office are saying this to themselves: "We can contend this year with Randy Moss, but get nothing for him and it may hurt us in terms of building a team going forward. So is it worth giving up future draft picks and the ability to build our future to try to push hard to win this year?"

    Now, 2 isn't necessarily a bad thing. Try to contend and win this year (and lose some of your ability to build for the future), or build for the future and have a chance to contend win for the next 5 years with a few good draft picks.
     
  10. Mike Ness

    Mike Ness
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    I don't understand the Patriots. I realize they most likely were not a Superbowl team but now they may not even make the playoffs. Regardless of what Moss's numbers may be he is a player that the defense has to account for on every play. Good luck throwing Wes Welker's bubble screen all game if you don't have Moss to draw the safety out of the play.

    I understand the Pats did not want to give Moss a long term deal I'm just not 100% why. Brady has a huge arm and need's a deep threat so I'm wondering who that will be now. Also for a 3rd round pick? That's it?

    I also think that the Vikings have a shot to win the division now, a weapon like Moss to compliment AP is pretty nasty. Brett may be old but he still has a cannon. He will love having Moss to stretch the field and when Sydney Rice comes back he will have an impressive amount of weapons. Should be interesting.
     
  11. D26

    D26
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    110
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,305
    I actually heard an interesting conspiracy theory on the radio this morning. The guy speculated (and admitted that he was just his thinking, and that he had zero reason to back it up) that perhaps New England was building a bunch of draft picks in an attempt to trade for and sign Vincent Jackson from San Diego. Apparently (and I could be wrong) New England has 2 first round picks, 2 second round picks, and 2 third round picks. They could easily use some of those to get a guy like Vincent Jackson from SD, pending San Diego was willing to part with Jackson (personally, I think AJ Smith is just big enough of a douche to let Jackson sit out the entire season and not trade him, just to prove a point).

    That could be an interesting move, but if New England doesn't do that, I think that is a clear signal that the Pats have written off this season in order to build up their future. I see a lot of NE fans bitching this year, but when they stop to think about it long term, they'll realize that all those draft picks mean that NE is going to be a contender for years down the road, even if only half of those picks pan out.

    As a Bears fan, though, I certainly don't like seeing Moss in Minnesota, at least this year. Again, I think that after this year, Moss is going to be next to useless and be a giant pain in the Vikings ass. He won't have a hall-of-fame QB throwing it to him anymore, and he is going to all but shut down just like he did in Oakland. Good luck after this year Minnesota. You better hope you win it this year, cause if you don't, I think shit is going to hit the fan in a big bad way.
     
  12. Trakiel

    Trakiel
    Expand Collapse
    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

    Reputation:
    245
    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2009
    Messages:
    3,167
    Location:
    St. Paul, MN
    This is actually pretty much completely wrong. Moss can and will put up all-star numbers regardless of the quality of QB throwing to him. In the 7 years he was with the Vikings here's the list of QBs he had throwing to him:

    Brad Johnson
    Randall Cunningham
    Jeff George
    Daunte Culpepper
    Spergon Wynn
    Todd Bouman
    Gus Frerotte

    He's not perfect by any means, but he doesn't need an all-start QB throwing to him to make him productive.
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

    Kampf Trinker
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    324
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    4,690
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Just to add, his time in Oakland isn't that bad. He was there for two seasons. In his first he compiled 1000 yards and 8 TDs. That's numbers for a #1 wide out. In his second year, he missed a few games and had a down year. That's one subpar season (emphasize while missing playing time) over a 13 year career. How does that lead us to believe he's about to drop off, or can't perform in Minnesota? We know his age will catch up with him at some point, but right now he's still playing a man in his prime. I think Moss is the most physically gifted receiver to ever play the game. If he had straightened out his attitude early in his career he'd be mentioned with Jerry Rice. He still might be when he retires.
     
  14. D26

    D26
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    110
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    2,305
    Wynn, Ferorotte, and Bouman I'll give you. How many games did they actually throw to him, though? Moss's best seasons in Minnesota were when he had an MVP-caliber Daunte Culpepper throwing to him. Remember, Culpepper wasn't always the big slow lumbering pile of suck that he was at the end of his career. He was, at one point, competing for NFL MVP with Peyton Manning. Cunningham wasn't exactly crappy, either, was he? The same goes for Cunningham, who was considered a very, very good QB in his day.

    After looking at it, Culpepper threw the vast majority of his games in Minnesota. In 99, he had Jeff George and Randall Cunningham (when Cunningham was injured, George stepped in) throwing to him. Otherwise, the vast, VAST majority of the games Randy Moss played in Minnesota, he had Culpepper or Cunningham throwing to him, both of whom are (or were) quality QBs.

    Brad Johnson threw to him for 2 whopping games, as did Ferorotte and Wynn. Bouman started 3, and George started 5 games. That is a grand total of 14 games in 7 Minnesota seasons where Moss had anyone besides Culpepper or Cunningham throwing to him. Your list is very misleading.

    Then, he went to Oakland, he had Andrew Walter (8 games), Kevin Brooks (8 games), and Kerry Collins (15 games), and Tuiasusopo (1 game) throwing to him. He was considered average, at best, on Oakland.

    Then he went to New England, and had Tom Brady throwing to him, and he showed that he IS the player we all knew he was.

    Bottom line: The guy throwing the ball is important to Randy Moss. When it was Culpepper or Cunningham as his primary starting QB (which was every season he was in Minnesota), he had good to great seasons, except his last season (when Culpepper started his transformation into said giant bag of suck). When he went to Oakland, he had 1 decent season (1000+ receiving yards, with a consistent QB in Collins who isn't GREAT, but is at least good enough to be a starter), and one awful season.

    My thinking is that Moss was trying the entire year when he knew his primary QB was Culpepper or Cunningham. He knew his team had a chance to win, he knew they were on their way back, and he knew those guys helped make him look good. He was more willing to put up with a shitty QB for a few games at a time when he knows it is only because his good starter is injured. However, if he KNOWS that he is going to spend an entire season with a shitty QB throwing him the ball (as was the case his last year in Oakland), he doesn't try as hard. He feels he can slack off, and the blame will fall on the shitty QB. I think that Moss feels it is a QB's job to make him, as the WR, look good, and NOT the other way around (which, BTW, is why I think Calvin Johnson is a better WR than Randy Moss; Johnson is a monster even with all the shitty QBs, including shitty-Culpepper, that Detroit has had throwing to him). That worked in New England. That worked with Good-Culpepper and Cunningham. That will work with Favre.

    That WON'T work with Tavaris Jackson.

    If Randy Moss knows that the only guy who will be throwing him the ball is Tavaris Jackson, who can't get him the long ball and can't make him look good, Moss will start to peel off routes early, slack on his blocking, and overall just stop trying as hard, knowing full well that he is Randy Moss, all-star and future HOF Wide Receiver, while Jackson is a guy the Vikings never trusted and is, at best, a journeyman. Who do YOU think will get the blame if the passing game between Jackson and Moss isn't good?

    In the end, Moss will give the Vikings one really good year. I think he and Favre will work well together, and his addition is probably enough to put the Vikings in the Superbowl. However, after this year when, when Favre walks away, Moss is going to fall off, and do so quickly. His age, in combination with his personality, and the fact that he won't have an MVP or HoF QB throwing him the ball, and the fact that Minnesota is going to have to lean very, VERY heavily on AP once Favre is gone, all leads me to believe that Moss is going to fall off the face of the planet. The Vikings are paying Moss for several years, but they're only going to really get 1 good "Randy Moss" year.
     
  15. Mike Ness

    Mike Ness
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    I just can't understand why the Pat's gave up, and make no mistake giving up Moss takes you out of contention. If they get Vincent Jackson it would make sense although Moss is a much better receiver. I also think he has at least three years left in him of being productive.

    I can't help to compare it to the Eagles situation. As an Eagle fan I actually did not want to see them play Michael Vick. Obviously Vick is a much better QB but the birds had no chance of making a playoff run. I would be shocked if they won the division, they have a terrible offensive line and an average defense. Why not let the young QB get his snaps? My guess is that the franchise felt it had a chance to win now with Vick.

    My point is that if the Eagles are willing to keep Vick in to try and win why would a Patriot team (who was heads and tails better than the Eagles) decide to throw in the towel and give up one of their most potent weapons? They kill Miami on Monday night and decide this year is a rebuilding year? I also didn't even think Moss was that mouthy, he said something to the fact of "not getting any love" but it was pretty tame for him. Moss looked like pretty good to me he didn't give up on plays and still had stretch the field speed so I guess I will have to wait and see.

    Rumors have McNabb going to the Vikings next year that would certainly add to Moss's hall of fame numbers.
     
  16. Maltob14

    Maltob14
    Expand Collapse
    Space Cadet

    Reputation:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    I don't see Jackson going to the Patriots because what I read on NFL.com is that he wants 30 mil guaranteed. I don't think the Pats want to give up that kind of money.
     
  17. shegirl

    shegirl
    Expand Collapse
    Redemption Seeking Whore

    Reputation:
    466
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    5,474
    Location:
    Hell
    Holy crap this has the potential to change the season for the entire division, and maybe beyond. I'm shocked it's happened. Like most, I know Favre has wanted to play with Moss for many many years. I guess he got his wish. Good for them but holy shitballs for the rest, like say, the Packers who barely eeked out a 2 point win on Sunday....against the Loins and after being up by two TD's for God sake.

    Things just got much much more interesting this season.
     
  18. pterodactyl

    pterodactyl
    Expand Collapse
    Disturbed

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2009
    Messages:
    287
    Yeah, his O-Line still has to protect him long enough for Moss to get downfield, but it definitely changes things. The Packers pass defense will look a lot better once Al Harris and Atari Bigby come back from the PUP list. Just in time for the Vikings game too.
     
  19. Mike Ness

    Mike Ness
    Expand Collapse
    Emotionally Jaded

    Reputation:
    0
    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    Messages:
    1,003
    Moss's contract was 3 year 27 million so it's not out of reach. The Pats have to do something, they have to add a guy who can stretch the field.
     
  20. Maltob14

    Maltob14
    Expand Collapse
    Space Cadet

    Reputation:
    2
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2010
    Messages:
    938
    Location:
    Halifax, NS
    How this hasn't gotten more coverage, I don't know. What I do know is that there is going to be mass murders. Could you imagine no season in 2011?
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.