His arm strength is both his biggest strength and source of his biggest flaw, his overconfidence in it. It is frustrating cause he does have good feet and moves around in/out of the pocket well, but won't set his feet to make the throws sometimes. I'm always curious about the last point. Based on what? Yelling at his OLine? Because he won't play nice with dumb questions from reporters? He is one of the most maligned players in the league and its interesting. I wish I knew the genesis of it. I won't address him being a "pussy" cause thats absurd. But being "whiny" is debatable. He just doesn't choose his words carefully enough for some. I bet he's no different than alot of athletes over the years, but we live in an era of soundbites and endlessly dissected media attention. I wouldn't even say he's disliked by Chicago fans. He's just frustrating because he is significantly better than any QB since McMahon and thus a pretty attractive scapegoat. Anything off the field is normally by some douche who approached him while peeing or at a bar. Try hard enough and you can find plenty of negative stories about any professional athlete, save for some of the most savvy. I know two nurses at Children's Hospital who have both mentioned that Cutler comes in all the time on a regular basis to hang out with the kids, but never with fanfare. Hell, I'm a Cutler apologist who looks for positive stories and I hadn't heard about until they told me. I particularly like people using his marriage to Kristen Cavillari as an excuse to paint him as a douche, good grief. I really like Aaron Rodgers, but he was throwing cameras out of his face after the Seattle debacle. Nary a word was heard. If that's Cutler, NFL writers would be sprinting to drop a new blog about it.
Yes. Rodgers threw cameras out of his face after they got robbed. Yes Brady yells back and forth with the other players on his offense and his coordinators. Same with Manning. Difference between them and Cutler? Theyre winners! Stop comparing what a SuperBowl winning QB does with a guy who was never won anything. Ever. Call it absurd. He coulda played that 2nd half. Many other guys would have. And I dont mean the guys in leather helmets. You think Favre woulda sat out with an MCL strain? Or Bradshaw? Maybe Marino.... Cutler is a douchebag for all those reasons. Is it fair? Maybe not. But he fails at every chance to change that perception and seems to seize every opportunity to enhance it.
Dude, you missed the first MNF game with Bears Cutler vs. the Chargers. The camera kept going back to them talking trash to each other. THEY HATE EACH OTHER! It's already there. When Cutler was in Denver they talked about it a little, but when he went to the Bears ESPN made it a bigger deal. That's when Gruden interviewed Rivers and he broke down his curse-word free trash talk. Which when you think about it, pisses people off more than people who swear at you. It's what Reggie Miller did too.
I think it's a combination of (1) the perception of throwing teammates and coaches under the bus, (2) the frequency fratty party pictures of his early years, and (3) a vague vibe he gives of inattention/indifference. There's something about his facial expression that people read as vacant/not-caring (there's a Japanese word for it that roughly translates to "face that is in need of a slap"), and he reminds of us of shitty frat boys that we knew in college and/or resent if we didn't go to college. See below: This is why it's an inescapable reputation: because it's not actually based on anything factual, but is just instinctive. Yes. You act as if those guys never sat out a game in their lives. And your perception that he could play is entirely hypothetical and unwarranted. It makes as much sense as saying that Brady should have stopped being a pussy and sent Matt Cassel back to the bench because "he totally could have played." The idea that players need to play every snap possible is stupid. It's how players get re-injured, and it leads to less effective players being on the field.
I'm way more annoyed by the perception that Cutler has no chin and a weird smile more than I am about his behavior.
I think the biggest reason Cutler rubs people the wrong way is that he steadfastly refuses to take responsibility when he fucks up or when things go wrong. When he throws a pick, it is because he was rushed and his O-Line wasn't protecting him. When they miss a first down, it is because the offensive coordinator can't call plays. When he does interviews, it is never, EVER his fault. That is all people really want; a SHRED of humility. Even an ounce of "I screwed up, I shouldn't have made that throw." That is the primary difference between Cutler and guys like Favre (who I hate, mind you), Manning, Brady, and Brees. Those guys tend to say "we all played poorly," and "I made some bad decisions." To them, it is a group that they are included in. Cutler doesn't do that. He just takes no responsibility when things go wrong, but he is damn quick to take responsibility when things go well. That said, his offensive line is a pile of dog shit. He takes a beating most weeks, and continues to play. The reputation for being a pussy is unwarranted. If he had stayed in that playoff game, his leg and footwork would've been awful, his throws poor, and I guarantee he'd have played like shit, which would have elicited the "why the fuck was he in the game if he is injured! He should let the healthy guy play and give them a chance!" response. I don't know why it didn't occur to me to get a Forte jersey. I could go that direction. Peppers isn't a bad idea, he is a future hall of famer, and one of (if not the) best at his position in football. The thing that always holds me back is I don't want to spend the money on a jersey for a guy that will be gone after a year. Rivers, I think, would win a douche-off, though. This face (made popular on KSK) sums it up:
I personally went with Briggs 2 years ago. Kind of overshadowed by Urlacher, but still a badass. My friend got Idonije, mostly to be unique, but still awesome.
I've never understood the Rivers hate. All the things you're saying Cutler is a douche for? Rivers is the opposite. People in San Diego love him. He's an elite level QB, he never passes blame on his teammates or coaches, the man (as has been mentioned previously) even trash talks in a clean manner. Hell, when they lost their last playoff game, he put the losing score as a decal on the back window of his truck to remind him, and to motivate him to play better. Sure, he'll get fired up during games, he'll look unhappy, but I've seen him explain on "Inside the NFL" a couple years ago that that's just wanting to win. It's usually because he's mad at himself for not performing better. I, on the other hand, feel free to pass blame away from him. His O line has been either suspect or plagued with injuries over the last couple years. His receivers have dropped balls in big situations. And Norv Turner is a fucking turd.
He just reminds me of every smug douche I've ever met, and that face up there is just the perfect example. He strikes me as the kind of guy that would make that face at every question asked of him. He strikes me as just exceptionally smug, and he is a guy that has been given the "elite" label, and let me ask you this: What championships has Rivers won? What has Rivers done that Cutler hasn't? Stuff like this: Spoiler or this: Spoiler Doesn't help. I don't see how that second one is much different from Cutler getting up and walking away from his offensive coordinator. Rivers gets this free pass to being "elite," even though he hasn't won a god damned thing. He is considered to be on a level above guys like Flacco, Romo and Cutler, and why? Because of all his championships, or because of all the playoff wins he has that those guys don't? The guy had Vincent Jackson, Antonio Gates, and LT, and he STILL couldn't win a title. Yes, Norv is one of the worst coaches in the NFL, but Norv isn't the one on the field, Rivers is. I'm sorry, Rivers is no more "elite" than Cutler, Romo, or Flacco.
<a class="postlink" href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/jim_trotter/10/10/philip-rivers/index.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/w ... index.html</a> I'll look for the numbers when I get to my home computer, but I think pointing out other greats that never won is interesting. Sure, too early to label him one of the greats right now, but... Edit: whoops. In this article (posted today, as a matter of fact), they have the numbers right there: You're telling me that's not elite?
Yes, actually. How is it that he ranks number 2 in wins, and yet still can't win in the playoffs? If he ranks that high in wins, it means his team is making the playoffs, but he isn't winning once he gets there. It means his team consistently has high expectations, and consistently falls short of those expectations. To me, that is not the sign of an "elite" guy. Rivers has always had a fairly solid supporting cast, has played in a division that his team should frequently run away with and yet doesn't (the Chiefs and Raiders haven't been good in years, and the Broncos have been inconsistent at best), and his playoff record speaks for itself. If you're saying that Rivers is elite, you are also saying that Joe Flacco and Tony Romo are elite. Romo and Rivers have very comparable stats (Romo, in fact, leads Rivers in lifetime QB rating and completion percentage, albeit by a small margin), and Flacco has a superior win percentage, both in the regular season and the playoffs. I think you'd be hard pressed to find people who would look at Romo or Flacco and say "yeah, those guys are elite!" I think, at the end of the day, an "elite" QB is a guy that will be in the hall of fame. It is a guy that can take an average team and carry them to wins. Manning, Brady, and Brees are guys that will be in the hall of fame, and they can pick up an otherwise average team and make them into champions. I think there is a distinct line between "elite" and "good." Romo, Flacco, and Rivers are all "good" QBs. They can lead a team sufficiently, and with a strong enough supporting cast, can maybe win a Superbowl. I don't think they are "elite." I don't think Rivers will be a hall of fame QB. I don't think Rivers will win a single Superbowl, let alone multiple conference titles and Superbowls. I think Rivers is a very good QB, and a solid franchise QB, but he isn't the kind of guy that can put a team on his back and carry them to wins, a-la Brady, Manning, and Brees. He just ISN'T that guy. He needs great pieces around him, and even then he can't really quite get the job done, can he (ask LT or Gates, both guys with hall of fame potential, both guys who never won a damned thing with Rivers as their QB)? Again, Rivers is a very good QB, but by no means do I consider him "elite." As for that quote from Brees, well, Brees is the kind of guy that would complement someone for beating the shit out of him. "That was a fantastic ass-kicking you just gave me, man! You're awesome!" So sayeth the Breesus. Edit: My stat research is from pro-football-reference.com. The Breesus reference is from KSK. Credit where it is due.
Your entire arguement is pretty stupid. I appreciate that you took the time to look up some stats, but have you ever watched the Chargers play? In 2010 and 2011 the teams were decimated with injuries and mismanaged. Between injuries (NFL record for most receivers with receptions in 2010, 3rd string O line in 2011), Antonio Gates's injuries in recent years, Darren Sproles being the primary back and there being no running game, Vincent Jackson's lockout, the giant clusterfuck year where the Chargers had the #1 defence an offence but their special teams gave up touchdowns every other play, Nate Kaeding singlehandedly blowing a playoff game by going cold after one of the greatest kicking years in memory, NORV TURNER, etc., its pretty impressive what Rivers has done. I for one appreciate his mentality. Going into the year he was thinking about being conservative due to his picks last year- he basically said fuck that, I'm going to do what works and keep slinging it. Rivers has shown incredible grit in games and has carried the team before. Just look at last week. He did a great job completing several long throws in a row within the final few minutes of the game (though most of them got called back). Then again, this was against the Saints' defence so it is admittedly a shitty example. I hate it when people say how great Flacco is due to his winning percentage. I like the guy and respect him more than many people do, but he is the starting QB on the team with some of the great defensive players of all time. Initially it was his job to just not screw up, and he couldn't always manage that. He even had Ray Rice to lean on! Many other QB's would have had superior winning percentages given his team, like Matt Ryan for instance.
I think what makes an elite qb is poise and leadership. Lockouts, injuries and generally, shit happens. However, an elite qb can and does overcome. Not perfectly, but they raise the level of play. For example, Randy Moss was poison to any team since the Vikings, until he met Brady. Brady convinced him that this was his best shot at a ring, and damned near proved it. In terms of being the face of a franchise, can you imagine Brees pissing off a fan or making even a tiny gaffe that would inspire this kind of criticism? No, he's so well respected by his peers he's the NFLPA's representative. Also, a player like Peyton Manning is simply a consummate professional, in a way that few others are. Look at the Denver players' interviews: most of them knew they were bringing in a HOF talent that previously was something they dreamed about. He cultivates this reputation as being the Tiger Woods of quarterbacks, the best to ever do it. Whether it's true or not is a matter of debate, but bet your ass his teammates believe it. If it was about rings, players like Eli Manning and Rothlisberger would be in this discussion more often, but they are frequently discounted because they don't have that sense of greatness, they don't draw out the best in other players and they are not regarded as the marquis faces of their position in the same way. Eli might retire with dozens of rings, but no records and he's not the Manning that receivers dream of playing with. Rothlisberger, after his ridiculous antics (motorcycle wreck and rape charges) will not be considered the face of the franchise anymore. After they retire, Brady and Manning will be the Senna vs. Prost of the NFL's elite qb's, with Drew Brees being a genuine underdog, class-act story associated with NO and Katrina. Those stories are bigger than stats, bigger than games, and often bigger than titles. That's why they are elite, because they transcend the game itself.
If that's what makes players elite, then very few will ever live up to it, and I guess that's as it should be. But that makes them elite of all time. What I'm saying is that Rivers is in the top 5 of current QBs, which I guess I should have termed "Current Elite". 1. Brady (though I fucking hate him) 2. Manning 3. Brees (though after breaking Unitas' record, he's a shoe-in for HOF) 4. Rodgers (though as a Vikes fan I hate him as much as I used to hate Favre, and even though he's surrounded by dogshit right now) 5. Rivers (arguments as explained above) And honestly, you telling me he's not currently in the elite of NFL QBs in the face of Is pretty dumb. Tells me you just don't like the guy, rather than facing the facts of the stats. I fucking HATE Tom Brady with the passion of a thousand supernovas, but I'll admit the man is the best out there right now. As pointed out in that article, Rings don't always make the man, as proved by Marino, Fouts, etc.
Actually, I can think of the primary difference between Cutler and Favre/Manning(either one)/Brady/Brees It's called a Superbowl win. Those guys are team leaders and Cutler is still a douche.
How many games did Favre sit out? Im sure he came out for a couple plays during his record 321 consecutive starts but I bet a lot of them were not in the game to send his team to the Superbowl. Its not like Cutler would have done himself "permanent damage" You either tear your MCL or you dont. Guys play with sprained MCLs all the time. In regular season games. He pussied out. Face it. Make all the excuses you want, but almost any other player under those circumstances would had to be carted off the field in order to leave that game. They had a chance to win that game. Douche or No Douche? Survey says: Douche
Yup, Favre (as much as I hated him til he was a Viking), never came out until he was beyond repair. He left a game once or twice (dirty Patriots hit under the chin springs to mind) but he never left as actually hurt until the Giants game. And again in the Saints NFC game. And we all know how that's playing out, with bounties and whatnot... Favre had 321 games starting in a row. Starting. Sit out a play or two, you've fucking earned it. Edit: I forgot, let's take a poll. Rivers. Elite or not (currently)?
I liked Favre until he pulled that bullshit hostage situation in Green Bay and the yearly LOOK AT ME...LOVE ME shit at the start of every year. Retire or dont retire, either way do it with class. Rivers is not elite. To me, you have to have at least lead your team to the SB to enter into the elite discussion. Not all SB QB's are elite, even if they won (i.e. Trent Dilfer) but you have to have the leadership as well as the numbers. Chucking it all over the field and then losing in the playoffs every year is not elite. It may be good, but not elite. Right now, IMO the elite QB's in order are: Brady, Rodgers, Eli, & Brees. Peyton still has the brain, but his body is failing. I dont know if he can make the adjustment like a power pitcher post TJ surgery like Pennington did. Rothlisberger isn't consistent enough, but he's real close. Then comes Flacco & Ryan & Romo. They are Rothlisberger without the SB wins. Then guys like Cutler & Schaub & Rivers 1tier below.
Rivers is currently elite. All-time? Not yet. But in today's game he is. A quarterback with great (top 5) stats and a strong winning percentage is an elite quarterback, basically by definition. Rings help one's case, obviously, but shouldn't be a prerequisite. I've always held great disdain for this argument in team sports. A QB can help lead a team to victory or defeat, but he cannot win alone, and if the stars don't align, in his relatively short career mind you, than the lack of a ring shouldn't discount you from being considered great. Up here in Patriots nation, that was all I heard for years about Peyton Manning, despite him obviously being elite in every way. Thank god he finally won one, so that people will finally shut up and respect the greatness that we are fortunate enough to witness. Likewise for LeBron, too. What the hell does the level of douchiness have to do with one being great at their job? How does likability and public persona factor into this elite debate, at all? Do I really need to list a number of people who excel in their given field but didn't play nice with the media or who were assholes in general? If you don't like Cutler or Rivers or whoever based on their on-field play, debate and discuss based on that. But if you're basing your Cutler criticisms on how apathetic he looks or how publicly crass he is or his relationship with Cavallari or any other irrelevant narrative, you should return to TMZ.com and let the men talk.