Let me once again reiterate: Romo has a better lifetime QB rating than Rivers. Therefore, if Rivers is elite, so is Romo. Anyone wanna go on the record calling Romo elite?
You don't think that a winning component should be factored in at all? Like Rivers superior winning percentage (65.7% compared to 61.0%) or his taking his team to four postseasons compared to Romo's three, in which Rivers has three playoff wins to Romo's one. That seems important when comparing the two, especially considering they both started in their first season in 2006, apples to apples and all.
What does this "elite" term even mean? Is it top 5 at their position? If so, Rivers was elite from roughly 2008-2010 (Ranked 1, 3, and 2 in QB Rating), but is no longer (11 last year and this year). He's not winning a ton of games these days, and he doesn't seem to be really raising the level of play in SD (does anyone think that Gates and Matthews are playing to the potential right now? His receivers aren't tremendously overperforming...) There is no measure that I'm aware that doesn't suggest that Rivers has seen an enormous drop off in the past two years. If we want to be having this debate, we're about 3 years too late. There doesn't seem to be anything suggesting that Rivers is currently a substantially above average NFL starting quarterback. He's still good, perhaps, but what argument could you have for him currently being elite? He's sub top-5 in every statistical category that I am aware of. If you're going to extend the "elite" category beyond 4 or 5 guys, hasn't the term lost any meaning? It's Brees, Brady, Rodgers, and Eli on a good day. Stafford, Big Ben, and Ryan are on the outside looking in. The days of Ben, Rivers, and Manning being elite are probably past. Unless you seriously think that Rivers is worth being lumped in with those first three names, he's not there. And if you do, you're nuts. What you just said about MCLs is simply not true. There is no sharp difference between an MCL sprain and and MCL tear. They are not distinctly different injuries. It is a matter of degree; all sprains feature some degree of tearing. Players have also played with broken legs. They've played with concussions. Hell, some have played with damage to internal organs. Some spit up blood. What's your point? The fact that someone has previously done it doesn't make it a good idea, or a reasonable expectation. Injured players are, all else equal, substantially worse at football. If you can't move well, you probably won't play football well. The point isn't to prove QUIEN ES MAS MACHO?! It's to win football games. Preferably, many football games including football games in the future. Tell me this: have you ever called in sick to work or school? Ever? Pussy. People go in with the cold. People go in with the flu. Some people work when they have cancer, what the fuck are you doing home in bed? Neither you nor I are (1) Jay Cutler, (2) a member of the Bears staff, or (3) a medical professional. Neither of us are qualified to suggest that Cutler and the Bears made the wrong decision there.
I would also argue that Rivers has had a significantly better supporting cast over the years. You can't discount the fact that Rivers got to throw to Antonio Gates, LT, and Vincent Jackson. The main thing people point to when saying Rivers is "elite" is that Norv Turner consistently fucks Rivers over. I won't disagree. Norv Turner is, without a shadow of a doubt, the single worst head coach in the NFL. That he still has a job is a clear indication of everything that is wrong with San Diego's front office (don't get me started on A.J. Smith, he'd kick Rivers off his team in a second if Rivers so much as dared to ask for a raise). That said, it isn't like Wade Phillips was the best head coach ever for Romo. Romo has a higher completion percentage and higher rating. QB Rating is generally how Quarterbacks are judged now-a-days, and Romo is higher (albeit only slightly). I think what is getting lost here is that I am not saying Rivers is a bad QB. I am saying there is the elite level (Consisting of guys like Brady and Brees), and there is the "very good franchise QB" level, where you find guys like Rivers. Rivers, for whatever reason, has yet to break through that barrier up to the elite level. In 2011, Rivers didn't even crack the top 10 in passer rating, and he tied for 3rd most Interceptions. Yes, he was 4th in passing yards per game, but he was also 4th in passing attempts per game. It is easy to have a high yardage when you're throwing it 36 times per game. In 2012, granted still a young season, Rivers (once again) isn't in the top 10 in passer rating, passing yards, or yards per game. He is tied for 8th in terms of passing TDs. You're saying Rivers is an elite QB right now, and I am saying the stats disagree. He hasn't even been a top 10 QB since 2010, his last good season (which, admittedly, was a damn good season). Edit: MoreCowbell beat me to a few points.
Solid points, both of you. I get too caught up in fantasy football pedigree and/or head to head comparisons for my own good. We'll agree that he is a 'very good franchise QB' at the present day. I think their supporting casts have both been solid and that they have both underperformed with them, to be honest. Dallas, on paper, should be nasty every year, same with SD before this year. LT, Gates, VJax on one hand, Witten, M. Austin, T. Owens, D. Bryant on the other.
An elite QB makes the players around him better, not the other way around. Welker doesnt make Brady look good, Welker looks good because Brady is his QB.
Can someone tell me why the loss of Cedric Benson is being touted as a huge blow for the Packers? He's Cedric fucking Benson, not Ray Rice or Adrian Peterson. Up until the point he got injured he was rushing for a whopping 3.5 yards per carry, which is good enough to be tied for 33rd among running backs. Am I the only one who thinks this may actually be a blessing in disguise for the Pack because they now have the chance to see if one of the other backs on their roster is actually better? I mean it's not like that's a far-fetched scenario given Benson's performance to date.
I think people are operating under the assumption that a bad running game is better than no running game. I'd have to agree.
I totally forgot that when I started this fun little discussion, it wasn't about whether Rivers is Elite or not. It was that I don't understand the hate people have for him seemingly everywhere except San D. I can agree that over the last two years, he has been only "Very Good" rather than elite.
I have to chime in here for a sec, Rivers is doomed because his head coach is a fucking dolt. And like someone else said, their front office is just as retarded for not firing him long before now. The fact that he's (Rivers) a bit of a dickhead on various levels does not reflect, in any way, on his ability or inability on the field. Stats, numbers and wins do, period. I can't stand him and dislike his coach even more. Everytime I see Turners viens begin to pop out I think he's going to stroke out, but he never does. IMO, calling him elite is a stretch at best. As for the Packers, once upon a time I lost hope, and then they pulled win after win, and made it in thanks to the wildcard. So, even though this year has started off completely in the shitter, I never lose hope. And I agree that the loss of Benson may turn into something good. The way things are going right now, it can't get much worse.
That doesn't really make any sense though. It would imply that Cedric Benson is such a valuable commodity that his absence will cause the running game to drop down so far that running isn't worth it anymore. Again, this is Cedric Benson we're talking about. The Packers can't have a bad running game with whatever other running backs they have on the roster?
Well...the guy may have had some fumbles but he did have 3 1,000+ yr seasons in Cincinnati. So its not like this guy sucked donkey balls. Guessing you are only thinking about him when he played in the NFC against your Vikings, when he was on the Bears and terrible.
You can be a douche on the field or sidelines too. Like yelling and bumping your oline. or your coach. <a class="postlink" href="http://boltbeat.com/2012/10/09/you-gotta-punt-the-ball-norv/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://boltbeat.com/2012/10/09/you-gott ... ball-norv/</a> Next time they threw a dumb int how would rivers or cutler react the to a lineman coming over and yelling in their face "NICE THROW! DO YOUR JOB, CRACKER!"
The plus on Benson is that he's dependable, and if all you want is a straight ahead runner, he'll get the job done. If you hand the man the ball, he will do a good job of running full speed ahead. The minus is that even his "good" three year tenure in Cincinnatti involved averaging 3.83 ypc, when the NFL average was approximately 4.2 ypc. The only year Benson was not below average for the NFL on a per-attempt basis was his rookie year in 2005, in which he only had 67 rushing attempts on got you an additional 2 inches per rushing attempt over the average back. So even when Benson is good, he's not so much good as "less terrible than expected." His stats as a receiver are not terrible, but still uninspiring. This injury is not bad if you assume that Starks, Kuhn, and/or Green can rush the ball 15 times a game at a 3.8 ypc or higher. I don't know whether or not that is true, but that's where the benchmark is. It's pretty hard to have a functional offense without at least 15 rushing attempts a game (hopefully more like 20. 27 of the 32 NFL teams run the ball at least 20 times a game), and if you're not getting at least 3.4 or 3.5 ypc, it's both ineffective and not very worrysome to the defense.
You see Brady screaming at people on the sideline every now and then too. I can't upload the GIFs for some reason, but there's one of Brady saying "fuck you bitches" to his teammates on the sidelines and another one of him yelling "No shit!" at one of the coordinators. Anyways I don't really see your point here.
The "fuck you, bitches" comment was after a personal rushing touchdown to tie the game, in Buffalo. I see no way that he was calling out his teammates there. Buffalo fans and/or Brady haters? Absolutely.
The whole Brady thing was just him talking trash to guys messing with him, not out of actual anger. http://deadspin.com/5948656/wes-wel...bitches-who-caught-tom-bradys-ire-last-sunday
The difference: Brady= 3x Superbowl Winner 2x Superbowl MVP 2x NFL Regular Season MVP AP, SI, Sporting News Athlete of the Year He could use FUCK YOU BITCHES as his snap count. I hate Brady, but I respect him. Rivers - I think he was player of the week once He did play a game with a torn acl, so at least hes not a pussy AND a douche like Cutler.