So...you trading in your Marino Jersey for a Brady one? Just say the magical words "Marino is a cunt" and I'll send you a signed Brady Jersey with a pair of matching Uggs. Let me know your sizes mmmk?
I'm a Broncos fan so I had my Cutler experience. I feel like he's a pretty easy guy to break down. Cannon for an arm, can make some ridiculous throws that very few people in the league can make, but will also do some occasionally dumb things. As of now I'd say he is a poor man's Brett Favre. One of the reasons people think he's a douche is because when he came into the NFL he met with Elway and from what people said he spent the entire time kind of blowing off Elway. I don't remember the article and if he was on his phone or was just ignoring him. When you have a chance to meet with one of the best people to ever play your position you should probably suck it up for an hour and pay attention.
So, have we come to any sort of agreement on exactly what "elite" is? Is there a minimum set of stats? Clearly rings are not a prerequisite thanks to Marino.
Also Fouts, Tarkenton, and Warren Moon. Jim Kelly and the elder Manning could possibly be in the discussion. I personally think Rivers is at the cusp of elite, although his attitude does bring him down some. I know people keep saying that you can be a douche and it shouldn't affect your job, and at any other position I could accept that. But at the quarterback position attitude and intangibles are pretty important. You have to be able to lead, and I don't see Cutler ever inspiring his teammates the way Montana did. Quarterbacks gutting it out can make the team play even better. Anyone remember when Leftwich was getting carried by Marshall linemen after every throw because he couldn't walk? After the injury I don't think a defensive lineman from the other team got within 5 yards of Byron. They played inspired since they knew their qb was playing hurt and it was up to them to protect him. Emotion can carry a lot of weight, and so can not wanting to let your leader down.
In my opinion, the bar is "widely considered to be in the top 5 at your position (maybe top 3) for a period of at least five years. In at least the top 20-25 of all time at your position." Rivers wasn't good enough for long enough. Elder Manning? Archie? Let's not be ridiculous. The guy has a career QB Rating lower than Mark Sanchez. Yes, everyone's QB Rating was lower then, but he threw far more interceptions than touchdowns.
If there was ever a player that had much more talent than his record indicates, it's Archie. His teams were absolutely god awful. He was that player in pickup basketball who's really good but gets stuck with 2 fat guys and 2 midgets.
I think you're correct about this, but there has to be a certain minimum standard here. Archie Manning is statistically terrible, in such dramatic fashion that he is precluded from being in this discussion. A guy with more interceptions than touchdowns, a career record of 35-101-1, multiple seasons with 40+ sacks, and a career average of 159 yards per game? Not making the cut. It's worth remembering that Marshall lost that game. To Akron, no less. So he couldn't have made them THAT much better. He also threw an interception and no touchdown passes.
So by that standard the currently active "elite" players would be Manning (Peyton), Brady, and Brees. How about Roethlisberger? He is very underrated in my opinion.
Yes, I agree with this. I think we can also safely assume that Rodgers will continue to be very good for a few more years and thereby warrant inclusion. I think Big Ben and Eli are the marginal cases among active players. I'm higher on Big Ben than most, and lower on Eli. Once you start including more and more people, your elite club gets really big. Elite has to mean something beyond "good" for the term to have any meaning. "Elite" players, when talking about entire careers, are shoe-in Hall of Famers, among the all time greats at their positions. In any particular season or handful of seasons, I think the bar should be similarly high.
Because the NFL, much like everything else, is a results based business. Same reason why you dont cut your starting Rb for a DUI, but the 4th string DT? Adios muchacho. And Rivers/Cutler are not douches for their clothing or their GF's, they are douches because of their high and mighty attitudes on the field and towards the press. Winning sort of removes that douche label. Ask Rothlisberger or Kobe Bryant. Winning World Championships made people forget they like to rape white girls in the butt.
I'm iffy on Rodgers to be honest. He's been top 5 for what, maybe 2 years now? The numbers he's been putting up so far this year are nothing compared to last year's. I tent to look at him as a Michael Vick. One or two fantastic years and then everyone will be talking about how great he could have been. Eli is a mixed bag. He needs a lot more consistancy in my opinion.
I think this is a great sentiment. When I think of the all time elite quarterbacks, only a handfull come to mind. I think if I had to put together a list, I could easily narrow it down to five or ten.
This is a lazy view on Rodgers. Last year he put up ungodly numbers. This year he's putting up godly numbers. Not looking at his numbers specfically, but if someone has a season where they throw 4,500 yards, with 45 TDs and 4 Ints, then next year throws 4,100 yards, 39 TDs and 6 INTs, doesn't mean they're inconsistent. Lots of factors go into those stats. If all his WRs get hit by a truck and they bring in practice squad guys, does that make a QB inconsistent? Not to mention the ungodly year was most likely the outlier, not the godly year. In reality His Int rate is now 2.1 instead of 1.2. That is barely a change. Barnwell just did a piece on this that breaks this down right here.
Anyone who actually watches the Bears knows that Cutler has to move a lot behind that sieve of a line. If he had come back into that game, he would have been rocked just a bad as that statue of Todd Collins they tried to use before moving on to Hanie.
The Oline was good enough to get them to the NFC championship But since he had to move a lot, he chose not to play the second half? And hes not a pussy because....?
The same reason Bosh wasn't a pussy for sitting out with the ab injury. With limited motion/strength in his knee, there wasn't much chance he was going to accomplish much more than hurt it worse.
You're being purposely obtuse. That team succeeded in spite of its offense which was ranked in the bottom 5. That "good enough" Oline gave up 56 sacks, 6 more than the next highest total. And the only 2 teams within 10 sacks allowed, the Cardinals and the Panthers, won a combined 6 games that year. You could argue then that given that, Cutler was good enough to get them to the NFC championship game, not the Oline, cause being last in the league at your main responsibility (oh yeah, the Bears were in the bottom half of rushing too despite having an above average RB, so its not like they run blocked well) is "good enough" to do shit. And your entire argument against Clutch, which assumes all else is equal, goes out the window because one big thing changed in relation to that offensive line, he was now playing on 1 leg. But we all know that you're just trolling, so why bring logic into it. Continue with ending every post with Cutler is a pussy while others make insightful fact driven posts. Congrats on becoming the KIMaster of the NFL thread.
Because maybe he knew he would be hindering the team by playing like shit because he can't plant his legs to throw. Maybe he knew he couldn't scramble behind an offensive line that couldn't block for shit, which would've resulted in more sacks, more lost yardage, and stalled out drives. Maybe he and the coaches knew that a 100% healthy backup would play better than Cutler on one leg. Maybe he thought 'one wrong hit at my leg, which is now a huge target, will mean the end of my career," and the coaching staff said "hey, it might not be the best idea to risk the career of the guy we just sold the world to get, when we have a perfectly healthy backup, even if it is a playoff game." They followed that thought with "besides, our defense is what wins is games, our offense just has to barely do enough." Then again, arguing with you is clearly silly. KIMaster of the NFL thread, indeed.