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2012 NFL Season

Discussion in 'Sports Board' started by shegirl, Sep 5, 2012.

  1. downndirty

    downndirty
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    Hmm...Suh, you say?

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d823e921f/article/suh-would-disagree-but-peers-vote-him-nfls-dirtiest-player" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d8 ... est-player</a>

    And....

    <a class="postlink" href="http://www.onenewspage.com/n/US/74ritreeu/Who-is-the-NFL%E2%80%99s-Dirtiest-Player-in-2012.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://www.onenewspage.com/n/US/74ritre ... n-2012.htm</a>

    I don't think a pussy in the most direct sense of the word can become an NFL qb in the first place, but getting body slammed a few times by a guy who's spent more than your annual salary in fines and was voted the worst in the league twice doesn't necessarily enhance the vaginal reputation.
     
  2. Gator

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    Thats 2 more pussies.

    I said the Bears held Cutler out because he sucked. I didnt say he pulled himself from the game because he was a pussy.
     
  3. D26

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    We're basing it on EVERYTHING ELSE you've EVER SAID about Cutler in this thread. You spent weeks railing about how Cutler was a pussy for not playing in that game when he injured his knee. Now, you're all "I never said he was a pussy... I don't know what you guys are talking about." You implied you felt he was out of the game because he was having a bad game and he wasn't really injured, and we called you on it, using the language that YOU used previously to refer to Cutler. Stop acting like you don't know where this is coming from.

    Ultimately, it made zero difference how he was performing in that game. He could've been setting records in the first half and he would have been held out, because he had a concussion, and the NFL has stated that they will drop the hammer on any team that sends in a player they know suffered a concussion. He went back in originally because he wasn't evaluated by doctors during the time out while they reviewed the play. Had he been evaluated then, I doubt they'd have let him back in the game. He was finally evaluated during half time, and they didn't let him back in the game.

    The Bears didn't hold him out because of his performance. The thinking there would be that Jason Campbell was going to come in and outplay Cutler in the rain? They were thinking "Boy, Jay sure is shitting the bed against the 2nd best defense in the league, in the rain and wind, I bet our backup would play WAY better than Jay would." Even the worst NFL coach (Norv Turner, I am looking in your direction) wouldn't make that decision.

    Edit to Add:

    I think I'm just going to keep copy and pasting this until the Bears prove me wrong and show me they aren't exactly the team I predicted they were.
     
  4. Parker

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    I'm going to toss out you won this prediction by a ball hair. If they got the game to 10-9, I feel like Tice would have pulled his real playbook out and gone for it. If Jay was in that game, it would have been different also. You win this one, but yes, it was by a ball hair.
     
  5. MoreCowbell

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    I'm not exactly sure what you mean here. In my opinion, the play calling really wasn't all that different. The only difference was that Campbell was not making the throws (ignoring open receivers downfield), and no one was catching the ball besides Brandon Marshall.

    The Bears catch open routes over the deep middle and suddenly this is a different game. I'm pretty sure Kellen Davis left the field in the fourth quarter with a tweaked sense of shame.
     
  6. Gator

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    Somebody said on Twitter last night after that long Campbell to Marshall completion "Thats why they got JC. Hanie cant make that throw!" Really? Tossing it up and letting Marshall go get it? Thats the foundation of the Bears offense. And like Deion Sanders said last night, thats the problem with the Bears offense.

    If your oline cant pass protect (which didnt look horrible last night considering they front line they were playing) why not go to Forte more? They throw a bunch of passes to Marshall and then when that gets taken away, the rest of the offense is lacking. It cant all be the lack of Alshon.

    Campbell is not why they lost last night. And it wasnt the Oline either. Neither of the 2 INTs were because of the protection. It was the drops and the lack of options outside of Marshall.
     
  7. JWags

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    The lack of Earl Bennett doing anything meaningful isn't helping either. Suddenly you go from having a pretty solid 1-3 to having Brandon Marshall...and Hester. Really glad Martz got Angelo to trade away Greg Olsen...

    My biggest problem with Tice last night was that his play calling wasn't very inventive. They get inside the 20 with that bomb to Marshall, then its off tackle left, off tackle right and some dumb pass to Bennett. We've said multiple times how good Forte is out in space, and Tice just wasn't making that happen.

    I don't disagree about needing to go to Forte more, but he had less than 3 YPC last night, the holes were not there.

    And Kellen Davis does suck.
     
  8. D26

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    KSK pretty much nails it again.

    One of the issues I have with Tice's play calling is he tends to use the pass to set up the run, and he calls a LOT of max-protect, which involves leaving Forte in to block, taking away Cutler's best check down target. Now, granted, he knows his offensive line is shit so he HAS to call a lot of max protect to keep Cutler alive.

    He should spend the first quarter trying to run Forte and Bush into the ground, or throwing short drop-off passes, then when the defenses start cheating forward, that is when you can start chucking to Marshall. Instead, he starts chucking the ball to Marshall, they go 3-and-out repeatedly, and get frustrated. I know Jay loves to throw the ball around, but if he establishes the run a bit first, it'll make his life SO much easier.

    As for being right by a "ball hair," at what point in that game did it feel like the Bears were going to break it open or even come back? Sorry, but there really wasn't any point where I felt like the Bears were going to make a comeback, especially after Cutler left the game. Their receivers were playing like shit, they couldn't establish the run, and their only hope was a defensive score.
     
  9. Parker

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    It was a rainy game on a shitty field where a starting QB got concussed on the shittiest of plays. That hit on was on purpose and that guy had a clear shot and didn't even attempt to make it clean. "He ran into me!" Bullshit. It was a one score game the entire time. Both teams were turning over the ball, punting back and forth. In a one score game, you know what Barnwell says about those, anything can still happen. "Feel" has nothing to do with it. I'm saying you were right, but it was by a ball hair.
     
  10. Kampf Trinker

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    The sad thing is that Ryan is actually a pretty good coach, but these blinders he insists on wearing when it comes to terrible QBs are ruining him. After this year the jets should kick Sanchez to the curb and see if they can deal Tebow to Jacksonville. Hell, they should see if they can deal Tebow right now. They'll have a high enough draft pick to get a good prospect. I mean, how the fuck could you let Sanchez start again after this season? He's had almost four years by now. Dude is awful, and at best he'll be elevated to sucking. He's had one good game all year, and that was the first of the season. I refuse to count the game he threw 82 yards and got credit for the running game.

    So how about Adrian Peterson for MVP? The guy has been amazing, and is probably solely responsible for the vikings still being in playoff position. If they do get in, I think he should win it. I'd much rather that than see it go to Manning, or Rodgers, or whoever throws the most touchdowns this year. These days it's a lot harder to rush for 5+ a carry than it is to have a 100+ passer rating, especially with a shaky QB on your team and defenses stacking 8 or 9 in the box.
     
  11. D26

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    The problem is that, until he gets on the field and shits his pants publicly, his fans won't believe that he can't hack it. He rode a really, really strong Broncos defense to the playoffs and a win last year, and now everyone thinks he can do it again with the Jets.

    Everyone is saying that Tebow is awful. People within the Jets organization are saying that he isn't even close to the same level as Sanchez, which is REALLY saying something when you consider how truly awful Sanchez is.
     
  12. MoreCowbell

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    I don't disagree per se, but for who? The Jets are an old team. As currently constituted, they aren't made for "rebuilding." So who do you see them replacing Sanchez or Tebow with? Rex Grossman? Jason Campbell? John Beck? A rookie? This requires the Jets realizing that it's tanking time, and I don't think they'll do that because what good players they have are quite old.

    Re: that bolded part, I think I see Percy Harvin sulking in the corner of this thread. On the whole, I don't have any problem with AP winning the award since he's on pace for over 2000 total yards (or Marshawn Lynch getting thrown a few votes), but I doubt the votes are there over Manning, Ryan, or Rodgers assuming all three make the playoffs.

    I see why you'd say that about 5+ ypc versus 100+ Qb rating, but it's unclear if that good of a QB Rating is actually easier or if we just happen to have a glut of top tier QBs in the league right now. You mention stacking the box, but aren't Aaron Rodgers and Drew Brees basically seeing the inverse of that? No one is afraid of Pierre Thomas and Alex Green.
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

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    That's a good point about them being an old team, but regarding the rookie scenario - yes, rookie Qbs usually struggle, but how much worse than Sanchez could they be? Plus, with guys recently like Ryan, Newton, Griffin, Luck, etc a rookie could be a huge improvement even in the first year. I don't follow college football as closely as I used to, but my understanding is the QB position isn't as deep this year as it was last season, but even still they can probably do better than Sanchez right out of the gate. Besides, if they finish let's say 5-11, what are they supposed to say? "Ok guys, Sanchez blows, but our championship window is totally wide open so we got to stick with what we got!" I don't know what the Garrard situation is, if his career is done or what, but assuming he can get healthy there's a guy who could come in immediately and play way better than Sanchez.

    Meh, Peterson has almost double the scrimmage yards Harvin does. If it goes to someone on that team it will be Peterson. Harvin is very good though...

    Come on dude. There's some really good Qbs out there right now, but we had three guys throw for 5000+ yards last season, 3 guys throw for 40+ tds (the next at 39), and Rodgers just had the highest passer rating ever of anyone in a single season. Yeah, I can believe these guys are good, but that shit is ridiculous. The 'average' QB today has a higher passer rating than most hall of famers. I can't believe the players just got THAT much better. Defenses can try to defend the pass all day, but they are much more hampered there than against the run compared to the past.

    I think what Peterson is doing is more impressive than what any elite QB has done so far this season, but that is after all just an opinion. They really do love QBs for that award. Given the hard on the voters have for Manning he'll probably get it if the broncos rack up 12 wins or so (to his credit nobody expected him to be this good, or even still playing at this point).
     
  14. MoreCowbell

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    Counter-counterargument: those three guys included two first ballot Hall of Famers, and one who I regard as the greatest QB in the history of the NFL. And Rodgers outplayed both of them. The third guy over 5000, Stafford, did not actually have a 100+ QB Rating. And lastly, eleven players topped 5 yards per carry, including such greats as Ben Tate, Jonathan Stewart, and Pierre Thomas. This year there are ten, three others of whom will break 1000 yards rushing (and for Martin, possibly over 2000 overall).
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    It's typically much easier for change of pace backs like Tate to have a higher average. They often have higher averages than the starter even though they aren't better players. Ok, maybe having 5+ per carry isn't as hard as I made it out to be, but Peterson doing what he's doing this year with an anemic passing game to keep defenses honest is nothing short of phenomenal.

    The whole debate aside, I generally think it's a lot easier to compare RBs today with their predecessors than with QBs. 20 years ago those stats I listed would never have happened, not by that many players, regardless of who was playing at the time. Marino's records stood for along time, but they're quickly becoming an after thought.
     
  16. justinarelost

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    That's a good point about them being an old team, but regarding the rookie scenario - yes, rookie Qbs usually struggle, but how much worse than Sanchez could they be? Plus, with guys recently like Ryan, Newton, Griffin, Luck, etc a rookie could be a huge improvement even in the first year. I don't follow college football as closely as I used to, but my understanding is the QB position isn't as deep this year as it was last season, but even still they can probably do better than Sanchez right out of the gate. Besides, if they finish let's say 5-11, what are they supposed to say? "Ok guys, Sanchez blows, but our championship window is totally wide open so we got to stick with what we got!" I don't know what the Garrard situation is, if his career is done or what, but assuming he can get healthy there's a guy who could come in immediately and play way better than Sanchez.

    (Bolded emphasis mine) Okay, are you serious here? David Garrard? The Jags decided to go with Blaine Fucking Gabbert over him. I know they're rebuilding, but if he was significantly better than Sanchez there is no way that the Jags are cutting him. Also there is no way that Garrard is still a free agent at this point, even if he's injured.
     
  17. Popped Cherries

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    There are really good QB's out there because, as a whole, rules have been put in place to protect the QB's and WR's. No such rules have been put in place to affect the running game at all.

    Remember just a few years ago when you could hit the QB up to a second after he released the ball? If a QB doesn't have to worry about getting hit, his job becomes infinitely easier. There is a reason why whenever Brady/Rogers/Manning etc has constant pressure around them, their performance is dramatically affected.
     
  18. Kampf Trinker

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    Uh yeah, I'm serious. You think Garrard isn't better than Gabbert or Sanchez? How in the hell how? As of November 13th he is a free agent by the way. The jets should be interested unless they want to go to the draft, which wouldn't be a bad idea either. The jags cut him because of injury issues and they thought Gabbert was something he isn't. I know it's shocking that teams cut the superior player sometimes, but it's not all the uncommon. Did you ever watch Garrard play? At worst he was average, and I would say he was a 2nd tier QB. He's definitely better than Sanchez and Gabbert. I don't know how someone could say otherwise, but if you got reasons I'm dying to hear it.
     
  19. MoreCowbell

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    Because David Garrard actually lost a QB battle to Luke McCown. Specifically, he was cut after throwing 3 interceptions in the final pre season practice, which Jaguars players called the worst practice they had ever seen. They weren't going to keep a $9 million old backup who was getting outplayed by Luke McCown and, according to rumor, Gabbert. It was also suggested that the Jags were planning on benching Garrard for McCown early in the previous season, before McCown tore his ACL. The injury thing is unsubstantiated beyond Garrard's agent.

    After being shipped to Miami, he was again the anointed starter. Then he proceeded to lose his job to both Ryan Tannehill and Matt Moore.

    So what makes you think that now, after several months of non-practice and without knowledge of the playbook, he's an NFL quarterback? He was a decent QB, sure, but that was two years ago. And he's since been passed over for two rookies, Luke McCown, and Matt Moore. The idea that he's going to pop out of nowhere and suddenly be a competent NFL quarterback is unsupported. You can't just walk onto the team in Week 11 and play quarterback, and if they wait until next season and don't draft a rookie, there will be better options out there than Garrard. For example, I imagine Matt Flynn is available by trade. Jason Campbell will be a free agent. Hell, I'd sign Vince Young before Garrard.


    In other news, the Patriots are weird. On Sunday, Deion Branch was second on the team in targets, ahead of Brandon Lloyd. Today, he's cut.
     
  20. Kampf Trinker

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    I'm not saying Garrard would come in and play phenomenal football. I'm just saying he would be better than Sanchez. I don't see why people think that's a stretch. Suggested they wanted to bench him for McCown by who? I don't get that decision in a season Garrard completed 65% of his passes and had an all around pretty damn good year. The staff saying Gabbert outplayed Garrard in camp means nothing to me. Gabbert took over pretty much the same team Garrard had and watching them play was like night and day. It's not even close.

    Regarding Miami, I don't see why it's so hard to believe he had to leave because he needed arthroscopic surgery. Also, that surgery came well before he was cut so I don't know what there is to dispute. I'm not seeing how that translates into him being outplayed by the competition.

    Garrard isn't an elite quarterback, but when healthy he's definitely an upgrade over the worst the league has to offer. I can't really say how much his time off will hurt him, but Miami cutting him over an injury/wanting to invest in their rookie doesn't give me any reason to believe Sanchez is better. Garrard was also much better than either Campbell, or Young, and Flynn has proven fuck all. Still, my point wasn't even that Garrard was the best or only option. Again, just that he's better than Sanchez.