Woohoo! We won the big MNF matchup vs Peyton. What do you wanna do now, Michael Turner? <a class="postlink" href="http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/8394092/atlanta-falcons-rb-michael-turner-charged-dui-speeding" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/id/83940 ... i-speeding</a>
Exactly. Don't leave yourself open. There's still a play going on, and if you start firing off then maybe the center gets a bit antsy and they fumble the exchange. Blah blah blah unwritten rule. Fuck you Coughlin. You play until the whistle. I see it as when Mayweather knocked Ortiz the fuck out after the headbutt and they were being separated. Protect yourself at all times. MC is right. If Eli fumbles the snap and the Bucs recover you're all on Schiano's jock right now. It's not like they're being dirty after the whistle, or trying to chop block people, they're firing off on the snap the way you do on every other play. TL;DR The Giants should stop being pussies.
The argument is that because this is a profession and this is how these men feed their families, that when a team or player is conceding, that you should follow the generally respected practice of not trying to take out their knees to cause a fumble because you just gave up 25 points in a quarter and are now ashamed to be out on the field. Again, if they were dancing around the backfield trying to waste 1:25, then that's a different story. Couple seconds left? Victory formation? Show some class.
Except that the Bucs (obviously) weren't conceding. If the Giants want to act as if victory is a given, then it's on them. Did you even watch the final play? They weren't just trying to dive for the knees to hurt someone because they were pissed off. They were trying to disrupt the snap in a one possession game. Had the Giants been up 14 points then yes, your argument is valid. But they weren't, so it's not. And that's how they feed their families? So if a receiver stretches out over the middle I shouldn't blow him up because he might be out of work? It's football, show some balls.
This shit is out of control. During the stack for a fumble the players were pushing the refs out of their way to get to the bottom. In another play the player did the same thing in full on chest thumping a ref out of his way. Had that been the regular refs each of them would have been ejected, and they should have. We aren't talking little shoulder pushes here. And the players last night were fucking fired up. Taking shots at each other, chop blocks, a missed horsecollar...the list goes on and on and on. What will happen probably sooner rather than later, someone is going to get hurt, bad. I don't know if that'll be an official or a player but it's coming. The refs don't even know where to line up for the snap and then how to get the fuck out of the way. It's dangerous for everyone right now.
The thing that is a pain in the ass about this whole replacement ref thing is when the announcers try to make it seem like the original res would make perfect calls. Last night there were a lot of bad ones, but on the Demaryius Thomas touchdown catch I think he made about as little possible contact with his second foot as you could and the refs got it right on replay. Plus, it was Thomas' back foot that he dragged so there was a defender and Thomas' whole body blocking the ref. I think the biggest problem is, as shegirl said, the refs seem intimidated by the players. They are calling fouls very late, seem unsure about what they are calling and are letting the coaches and players influence the calls way too much. It is understandable because as Gruden was saying last night, these refs are not the back ups. The second best groups of refs are in major college conferences, and third are in minor college conferences.
Let's not forget the play in '10 when the refs pointed opposite directions for a fumble pile recovery. Some of these refs are calling phantom calls, others are playing to the textbook definition rule. Plenty of bad calls happen with with the normal refs. The things the regular refs didn't mess up were ball spots. That shit has been atrocious.
That Giants/Bucs play was fair game. I completely agree with FreeCorps and MoreCowbell on this; you play 60 minutes of football. The kneel-down isn't a formality, it's a play designed to waste time. If you can disrupt the play to have a shot of winning, that's what you do. Maybe the offensive line shouldn't treat it so trivially. I feel the same way about running up the score, incidentally. It's a football game. It goes on for 60 minutes. Fuck you if you get butthurt because someone is out there playing hard. It shouldn't be on the offense just because a defense can't stop them. RE: the refs, the real refs don't always get everything right but there's a whole lot more efficiency, and leadership when they're on the field. Last night was a freakin' mess. Nothing to do with the reviewed call on Thomas - that's not a problem. Fifty people shoving each other and the refs because there's no respect and no order is a problem. Taking 3 minutes to spot the ball correctly when the offense is in no-huddle mode is a problem.
So the Bucs are supposed to roll over and take the loss? One possession game. Fuck that noise. You play until the end of the game. (And I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought about the running up the score "argument".) This whole season is turning into amateur hour. It's hard to take the shit seriously when the outcome of the game can be decided by the refs and not the players.
I agree on most of your points. What about Atlanta? Ryan looks good so far and they have put up pretty good points. Yes SF has a monster D, possibly the best in the league but their O is still suspect. Neither GB or Detroit have great defenses. I'm curious to see how they do against a good Defense. Alex Smith has earned the starting job but I wont be sold until he is really tested. As far as the replacement officials, it is what it is. The best thing you can do as a team is not be in a position to allow one bad call to cost you the game. I know thats not always possible. It's sad that it seems like the NFL could give two shits about the situation but as we all know its all about money.
Atlanta needs to be able to win in hostile non-dome enviroments. When I mean hostile, I mean cold as hell. The warm cozy, astro-turf dome they play in is a little different than putting on cleats and getting dirty. I'm talking out of my ass, but the stats are there with them.
Then why dont all teams do it? Why dont you see more teams dive for the ball at the end of a half or the end of a game? I agree with Justin Tuck: <a class="postlink" href="http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_/id/8395826/new-york-giants-justin-tuck-rips-tampa-bay-buccaneers-kneel-ploy" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/story/_ ... kneel-ploy</a> I saw the play. I saw them submarine the line. Teams have fumbled on a kneel down play, but the defense has not once ever slapped the ball away on the snap in an NFL game. Because it's legal, doesnt make it right. Its just too bad the Bucs wont have a game where their QB gets to take a knee for a couple years now...
There's a difference between trying to hurt people and actually, you know, playing the game instead of rolling over.
Because it has a very low chance of success and makes you look like a dickhead. Apparently Schiano decided he was okay with being a dickhead. The Giants should have been paying attention, though. Honestly, the offense being nonchalant with the kneel-down is exactly the sort of situation where a stunt like that might work.
Also let's not forget the other effect that his players love him 100x more because 1) He had the balls to try that. 2) He thinks they could have pulled it off and won the game. Coaching matters, and the players view of the coach matters. That boosted him in their eyes by 100.
From the quotes I read, the Giants players said that some of the Bucs players were embarrassed by it and said they were told to do it. Would you want the Pats doing this? Edit: Eli also told the defense he was going to take a knee before they did this.