Yeah, that was my point. People are calling it a hate crime, because it is. This was a very pointed, deliberate act and should be treated as such. In 2015, 50 years into the Civil Rights Act, 150 after the civil war, we're still on this shit.
But why is it 'worse' to kill someone because of race as opposed to say just a run of the mill robbery? The victim isn't any less dead. Believe me, I get that it's 'because of the perpetrator' but the reality is a crime is a crime. You rape me because I'm white or because I'm available makes no difference to me. You rob me because I'm white or you need drugs makes no difference to me. Ultimately, if you're the type of person that is willing to cross that line and be a criminal you should be punished for the crime, not the motive.
Apparently, everybody has seen this but me. I'm putting it here in case you didn't. Maybe TX. was secretly Judge #3 . . . Spoiler: Long Joke "TEXAS CHILI COOKOFF" The notes are from an inexperienced Chili taster named "FRANK", who was visiting Texas from the East Coast: Frank: "Recently, I was honored to be selected as a judge at a chili cook-off. The Judge #3 called in sick at the last moment and I happened to be standing there at the judge's table asking for directions to the Budweiser truck, when the call came in. I was assured by the other two judges (Native Texans) that the chili wouldn't be all that spicy and, besides, they told me I could have free beer during the tasting, so I accepted." Here are the scorecards from the event: Chili # 1 Mike's Maniac Mobster Monster Chili: Judge # 1 -- A little too heavy on the tomato. Amusing kick. Judge # 2 -- Nice, smooth tomato flavor. Very mild. Judge # 3 -- (Frank) Holy shit, what the hell is this stuff? You could remove dried paint from your driveway. Took me two beers to put the flames out. I hope that's the worst one. These Texans are crazy. Chili # 2 Arthur's Afterburner Chili Judge # 1 -- Smoky, with a hint of pork. Slight jalapeno tang. Judge # 2 -- Exciting BBQ flavor, needs more peppers to be taken seriously. Judge # 3 -- Keep this out of the reach of children. I'm not sure what I'm supposed to taste besides pain. I had to wave off two people who wanted to give me the Heimlich maneuver. They had to rush in more beer when they saw the look on my face. Chili # 3 Fred's Famous Burn Down the Barn Chili Judge # 1 -- Excellent firehouse chili. Great kick. Needs more beans. Judge # 2 -- A bean less chili, a bit salty, good use of peppers. Judge # 3 -- Call the EPA. I've located a uranium spill. My nose feels like I have been snorting Drano. Everyone knows the routine by now. Get me more beer before I ignite. Barmaid pounded me on the back, now my backbone is in the front part of my chest. I'm getting shit-faced from all of the beer. Chili # 4 Bubba's Black Magic Judge # 1 -- Black bean chili with almost no spice. Disappointing. Judge # 2 -- Hint of lime in the black beans. Good side dish for fish or other mild foods, not much of a chili. Judge # 3 -- I felt something scraping across my tongue, but was unable to taste it. Is it possible to burn out taste buds? Sally, the barmaid, was standing behind me with fresh refills. That 300-LB. bitch is starting to look HOT ... . . just like this nuclear waste I'm eating! Is chili an aphrodisiac? Chili # 5 Linda's Legal Lip Remover Judge # 1 -- Meaty, strong chili. Cayenne peppers freshly ground, adding considerable kick. Very impressive. Judge # 2 -- Chili using shredded beef, could use more tomato. Must admit the cayenne peppers make a strong statement. Judge # 3 -- My ears are ringing, sweat is pouring off my forehead and I can no longer focus my eyes. I farted and four people behind me needed paramedics. The contestant seemed offended when I told her that her chili had given me brain damage. Sally saved my tongue from bleeding by pouring beer directly on it from the pitcher. I wonder if I'm burning my lips off. It really pisses me off that the other judges asked me to stop screaming. Screw those rednecks! Chili # 6 Vera's Very Vegetarian Variety Judge # 1 -- Thin yet bold vegetarian variety chili. Good balance of spices and peppers. Judge # 2 -- The best yet. Aggressive use of peppers, onions, and garlic. Superb! Judge #3-- I shit myself when I farted and I'm worried it will eat through the chair. No one seems inclined to stand behind me except that slut Sally. She must be kinkier than I thought. Can't feel my lips anymore. I need to wipe my ass with a snow cone. Chili # 7 Susan's Screaming Sensation Chili Judge # 1 -- A mediocre chili with too much reliance on canned peppers. Judge # 2 -- Ho hum, tastes as if the chef literally threw in a can of chili peppers at the last moment. I should take note that I am worried about Judge #3. He appears to be in a bit of distress as he is cursing uncontrollably. Judge # 3 -- You could put a grenade in my mouth, pull the pin, and I wouldn't feel a thing. I've lost sight in one eye, and the world sounds like it is made of rushing water. My shirt is covered with chili, which slid unnoticed out of my mouth. My pants are full of lava like poop to match my shirt. At least during the autopsy, they'll know what killed me. I've decided to stop breathing, it's too painful. Screw it; I'm not getting any oxygen anyway. If I need air, I'll just suck it in through the 4-inch hole in my stomach. Chili # 8 Tommy's Toe-Nail Curling Chili Judge # 1 -- The perfect ending, this is a nice blend chili. Not too bold but spicy enough to declare its existence. Judge # 2 -- This final entry is a good, balanced chili. Neither mild nor hot. Sorry to see that most of it was lost when Judge # 3 passed out, fell over and pulled the chili pot down on top of himself. Not sure if he's going to make it. Poor dude, wonder how he'd have reacted to really hot chili?
Sad day. The fucker sat through bible study with them too. Reportedly told a survivor he let her live so she could tell people what happened. Fuck today.
Has anyone had Fernet after a meal? Dear God is that shit vile, but it might be the only reason I didn't boot last night.
The best justification I've heard is that a hate crime is also a threat against the targeted group. If you kill someone solely because they are black or gay it implies that anyone who fit that criteria could have been the victim and that maybe the next time it could be any of them. The idea is that the whole group is being indirectly victimized. This is a lot easier to understand in the context of a terror group like the KKK. If they burn a cross on a church lawn, it is obviously more than simple vandalism. The implied threat to the larger group makes it a more serious crime. There is nothing wrong with hate crime legislation. The American legal system takes intent and motivation into account all the time. The problem comes from people wanting to call everything involving a minority a hate crime. This appears to very clearly be a hate crime. I suspect anyone claiming it isn't only read the headline and rushed to comment. Also, most people who post in comment sections are mouth-breathing retards.
Ok, I'll go with this. A crime is defined by two things: actus reus and mens reus. One is 'the act.' Oh, hey, I killed a guy. The second is 'mens reus' - Oh, hey, I meant to kill the guy. Motive is not actually part of the crime for the most part. It certainly plays a part, and a smart prosecutor will try to show that during a trial, but motive is not usually a component of the crime. What this does is value certain people - either black on white or white on black - over others. The fact is I don't care if you're black or white, you don't deserve to get killed. So don't fucking kill people. It's simple.
How did you quote my post, which specifically said it's not supposed to matter to the victim, then repeat 3 times that it doesn't matter to the victim? It's designed to ensure that additional punishment is handed out for a particularly nasty breed of crime - that is, one that is targeted at essentially causing terror in an often-marginalized and usually-minority group. Hate crimes aren't only targeting a specific victim. You drag some guy behind a truck and hey, that's horrible and ugly and you deserve to be punished, but it doesn't cause an entire group of people to fear that they're going to be randomly targeted and dragged behind a truck. You drag some guy behind a truck because he's gay and suddenly you're essentially a social terrorist - you're causing fear and anxiety in a specific sub-section of the population that has already experienced a lot of hate and discrimination. It's not about the victim. It's about trying to curb a specific type of violence that oppresses and terrorizes a social group that already has reason to feel fearful.
But this does not address what I mentioned above. Actus reus and Mens reus. Tell me how the above has anything to do with that? Go.
Because the hate crime part of it technically has nothing to do with the original charge. The murder charge is just a murder charge. The hate crime component is either a sentencing guideline or a separate charge akin to menacing the wider group. If you want an example of motivation being taken into account, consider the self-defense defense. Yes you killed them, and yes you meant to, but you had a justifiable reason. There are also sections of the legal codes containing phrases like, "possession with intent to distribute."
Let's not get dismissive here. I responded specifically to what you said to me. Just because you made other comments in another post responding to a different person doesn't mean what I said is "not addressing what you mentioned." Second, uh, what? The legislation is very specifically designed to take motive into account. It doesn't matter if it's not considered in other crimes, that's what hate crime legislation is supposed to do. That's why it exists - so that the law can take motive into account if it could possibly be considered a hate crime, and add additional punishment for essentially causing terror. The reason for doing that is what I already said above. This is similar to terrorism charges, in fact - you aren't just charged with killing a bunch of people, there are additional punishments for terrorism. The fact that motive typically isn't weighted heavily when determining punishment is the actual reason why hate crime legislation was enacted. So... good job on observing that to be true?
Figured here was as good a place to ask as any. Here's the suspects photo, what are those patches on his jacket? Spoiler: For Size
The top one looks like a variant of the apartheid era South African flag. The bottom one might be the flag of Rhodesia.
Rhodesia (now Zimbabwe) perpetrated a genocide program against black natives seeking biracial government; ethnic cleansing in other words (for those keeping track at home). So, figures. Where did that picture come from anyway? I'm hoping this to be the final death knell for the bowl haircut. Seriously. Name one person who ever had it that was a balanced, productive member of society. Even Moe from The 3 Stooges was a sociopath.
It's being reported locally. Thanks for the answers. http://www.wistv.com/story/29351540/charleston-shooting-suspect-from-columbia-area
I'll get dismissive if I care to. The fact is crime is defined by the terms I laid out. You can like it, you can not like it. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, we punish for crimes, not for thoughts. Your description of a crime would include thoughts. We don't punish thought. We punish actions. And what those actions entail.
Justice Dept. just confirmed they have a suspect in custody. Good. Put him in a hard labour prison until he dies. He's young, he'll make great fuckmeat for the Homeboys.
Media bingo today: fill out your card with the following: "Gunman played video games" "Gunman was quiet" "Gunman was shy" "Gunman was 'clearly unbalanced'" "This isn't terrorism" "This isn't a hate crime" "If this were a black man shooting up a church we wouldn't be reporting it" Free space: Random, Wild speculation "Any form of 'they brought it on themselves'" "Gunman listened to rock music" "we should ban all guns" "We should never ban guns" "If they had been armed in that church this wouldn't have happened" "White Fox News talking head explodes after realizing he advocated arming black people with guns" "That video of Charlton Heston saying 'from my cold dead hands' while holding a gun" "Comparisons to Ferguson" "Comparisons to Baltimore" "Comparisons to crazy Colorado theater shooter (I refuse to name him)" "Treyvon Martin" "White guys lamenting about the "good old days" "People blame Obama for contributing to the "racial divide" in America" Any others? Ps: don't think I'm taking this lightly. I hope that bowl cut little Klansman gets whay he deserves, but he'll probably kill himself first like a fucking coward.