Advertising

Hey, Parker are there any studies that show if advertising works? I mean studies not conducted by the advertising industry.

I'm just curious. I have a remote that will either mute or change the channel on the television when there are commercials and internet advertising is almsot entirely useless.

 

There is no third party advertising showing advertising works ever. Because it doesn't. It never has, and never will. We just make you think advertising works, which makes the ineffective advertising work, and that process, what we used to call "Inception" before your "d" less distant relative C. Nolan made that movie...

Besides the fact that I'm looking at a Google interface now that shows that people typed in the word Bose and instead of clicking on the natural search result of Bose.com, clicked on the ad for Bose.com, and we've made about 35+ million off this tells me that advertising might possibly, maybe, coulda, woulda, theoretically, potentially, might work.

But once again. Advertising is just product A making a case it is better than product B, even it actually might not be. OR if Product A actually IS WAY better than Product B, people should know that. Everyone one of you fuckers who has had a job, created a resume to get there. You advertised. FEEL DIRTY!

 

Dude I didn't say anything about hidden agendas, your marketing-fu won't work on me, I'm a level 27 blackbelt bullshit-juitsu masta.

I said they're unscrupulous and amoral, from the beginning all I've said is that I don't approve of how they conduct business by doing their best to manipulate, coerce, and do everything except say "Hey this product is pretty nice and here's why" instead what they say is "your manboobs will poke out from under that little pink dress the other company forces you to wear unless you buy our product"

Although I appreciate all the counterarguments you've made thus far:

• Marketing makes money that reduces the price of other services
• Marketing companies have no evil agenda
• No product is inherently evil
• MARKETING SUCKS BECAUSE SOCIETY SUCKS

That's great, and I agree with you on all points. I still say, completely unrelated, and seemingly unopposed by, what you've said thus far, that marketing is a bullshit manipulative shit-slinging contest that instills false senses of need and value on completely irrelevant and unnecessary products. Glad you don't seem to disagree.

Edit: And anyway they don't need an evil hidden agenda, they have a perfectly evil overt agenda: Manipulate and coerce people to buy more of our product and none of our competitors product by any means necessary.

I don't see why they need it to be a secret for it to be evil.

 

I have watched Mad Men. Advertising is evil.

There is a subtle but important difference between advertising information about a product, no matter how misleading or shitty and making a false claim because there is no useful information to advertise. The ability and creativity of the lies in advertising is stunning and if no ad made a false claim, I believe we would not be inundated by it because we would not need so much of it.

Also, I firmly am against billboards. You watch tv knowing you will see ads, the internet at this point exists to advertise, some movies are two hour product-placement marathons, I get it. But outside of those mediums, get fucked. I'm driving to work, watching the sun rise over the mountains, any billboard that obscures my view doesn't get my fucking business out of spite. McDonald's has thousands of restaurants that they can deck out like Goddamned Carnaval, you should not plaster your logo across the landscape.

At what point does advertising become counter-productive because people hate the fucking ads?

 

I always love celebrity plugs. Doubts in our product? Take the word of a debonair legend of pop culture to steer you right:



Don't advertise a company that makes wifebeaters if you're a wife beater.


Let us not forget the King Of The Whores:

 

People need to stop pouting about advertising taking a subtle approach to play on insecurities and manipulating people to buy their products. Yes, that does happen, and there's some really interesting studies that demonstrate how advertising construes what is sexually desirable in the opposite sex. Car ads remind poor people that they're driving a piece of shit. Diet products remind people that they're overweight. That's business. Advertising barely scratches the surface of shady ethics.
Half of advertising is to inform people their product exists, or remind them that they 'should' want to try it. Most of the other half is about demonstrating value. They're giving you a choice, take it or leave it. They wrap their products in stupid packaging, silly names, and irrational commercials because people make emotional ties to what they buy. The core message is still more pragmatic than most people think. Ads are annoying. They clutter everything, and some are downright offensive. Why the hell should I care? If I want to get pissed off I'll turn on the news.

Also, marketing greatly improves our quality of life. All the bullshit that comes with advertising is no more than a necessary evil in my mind.

 

I'm curious as to what you anti-ad people want, do you want a legal ban on how effectively you can market a product? Do you expect companies to have this discussion:

CEO: Well, Q3 figures are down but we expected this because we really dialed the marketing back and didn't push the whole lifestyle campaign for Coke and gave Pepsi a fair shake this go around.
Majority Shareholder: No sweat man, as long as we aren't sending mixed messages to consumers! It's not like we're in this for the money.

I mean you say you don't want them to lie, which they legally can't (they can just manipulate), so what do you want? They see a way to make money so they take it, that's what they get paid to do. And if you don't think marketing matters, why does Coke slaughter Pepsi and McDonald's slaughter BK and Wendy's? They're not markedly better products by any objective scale.

 

OK, so you're in the 1% (let's be real, it's less than that. I'm the only person I know that pays for Pandora) that pays for these services. if it weren't for the freemium model, would anyone have given Spotify or Pandora a try? Is anyone saying "Well, this might be OK and it might suck....but sure, I'll pony up $8 a month just to make that wager."

If it weren't for the ad supported model, Spotify and Pandora would both the in the list of "cool ideas you've never heard of."

I can't tell whether you're serious. Are you suggesting that companies willingly burn money? If advertising didn't work, considering how expensive it is, we'd quickly see a lot less advertising.



The one that throws me for a loop is internet advertising (i.e. banners). I have literally never clicked on a single one of these in my entire life. Yet they can't just be going for an atmospheric effect, because they're typically priced in things like cost per click. So SOMEONE is clicking on these. Who are these people?!

I assume that to balance me out, there must be someone in Kansas who literally clicks on every ad she sees.

Because Pepsi tastes like butthole.

 

Because Pepsi is disgusting and your average trailer park resident can't afford any of the decent stuff on the Wendy's menu. Just saying.

 

I want advertising that informs. For example, Pizza Hut used to do this program for kids that gave discounts and "rewards" for how many books they read. It was basically giving the school library a series of coupons, but advertise THAT instead of where you put cheese. That is information that has value to people who will bring 3-6 stomachs that need to be filled directly into your restaurant. It's about not trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator, but treating your customer with respect while offering mutual benefit. This kind of thing also makes a business have to develop a relationship with the community it's in, instead of blowing $50 million on a Super Bowl ad, the company has to spend it on promoting 50,000 high school track meets or middle school orchestras. It might sound dumb, but it's done absolute wonders for Chick-Fil-A until that whole "we hate gays and spend our money that way" thing happened. We know you're soulless whores, but at least smile and call yourself an "escort" when we're writing the check.

I would personally like to see mass mailings, telemarketers and billboards taxed and regulated much more severely. This funnels ad dollars into mediums that the consumer knowingly accepts as advertising-based, like magazines, newspapers (a great way to salvage that industry, IMO), tv and the internet. This gives people a choice of whether or not they are submitting to advertising. Since a lot of the information that mass mailers and telemarkers use is often gleaned without the customer's consent, and almost certainly against their wishes (who signs up for THAT?), it would open the door for a lot more dedicated protection of your customer's information.

A legal ban wouldn't do anything, but some serious consumer protection against companies who make false or misleading claims would go a long way towards reducing the "smoking cures asthma" kind of claims that persist to this day. I shudder to think at how much further the obesity epidemic goes when McDonald's is advertising oatmeal that contains a half pound of sugar as a healthy breakfast and gets away with it.

 

If you're too dumb to know you're being sold, you aren't smart enough to get upset about it. That's what they count on. That's who they're after. Everyone else just has to deal with it.

 

That's adorable, but it obviously doesn't work, otherwise you'd see a lot more of it.

I'm not going to touch anything else you said with a ten foot pole, but I'm not dismissing it. After living in Vermont where they don't allow billboards I'd love to have more escapes.

 

Wait, you WANT the billboards? The United States highways are festooned with those fucking things, Michigan is simply awash with them.

We don't have many billboards around here, just lots of those fucking interchangeable letter signs with the ugly flourescent letting on them. I HATE those goddamn things, they are HIDEOUS and should be treated with fire. Or at least changed to spell dirty words.

I enjoy advertising when they actually put forth effort to entertain you:

 

That was probably poorly worded, I hate billboards and would love to live somewhere like Vermont without them again.

 

I don't think our overall culture of rampant consumption/consumerism is healthy at all, but that's how it is. Within that system, advertising is bound to occur, so I have a hard time criticizing advertising itself because I think it's a symptom of the problem, not the problem itself.

Companies want to sell as much of their product as possible, and if their competitor comes up with a clever ad that associates their brand with happiness/success/fulfilment, then hey, you have to keep up, right? And if you're watching TV, or reading news online, how can you complain about the ads - they are what's paying for the content.

I understand why advertising is the way it is, I just don't like it. Car companies tell you that buying X model is for people who are strong, confident, in control. Or Y model, for people that are free, impulsive, fun. MacDonald's markets itself as a place where you go to connect with your family on a meaningful level, where people can get away from the world and feel absolute contentment.

But that's all bullshit, of course. And we all know it's bullshit when we take the time to think about it, but we accept it because that's how the world works.

 

Thank you for this. Now if you don't know about the Dove Campaign for Real Beauty, you shouldn't be having this discussion. The Dove Campaign for Real Beauty has been regarded as one of the best campaigns in the last 10 years and waves the flag in the face of the entire "advertising is evil" argument. It is a stupid argument but it prove MoreCowbell's point. If the positive messaging worked, there would be more of it. The woman that created that whole thing came into my Graduate Advertising class that discussed all that downsides of advertising. This feminist asked her if her goal of the campaign was to fight against all the evils of media telling women they aren't beautiful and they need to buy more products to be beautiful. The answer was a flat no, she did it to tell products. Not to mention the fact the same company that owns Dove, owns Axe Body Spray.

I'd personally love to see mass mailings reduced also, but then stamps would cost $5 dollars an envelope. I'm all for the billboard reduction, especially on non-highway locations. Having them in neighborhoods is pretty fucking silly. The only problem is that they work. If they didn't work, they wouldn't be up there. They also keep tollway costs down. No billboards? You're paying the state more money through that sweet IPass of yours. Or we'd just have shittier highways. Your pick.

Allord is right about my counter arguments, but your statement is baseless.

 

While I understand the need to appeal to the lowest common denominator, I still get annoyed with stupid advertising. I think we can all agree that GoDaddy commercials are shit because most people don't actually understand what that company does and they are just pandering to a certain demographic. It's that sort of thing that annoys me.

That being said, it can go the other way:



These commercials are pandering in the exact opposite way. They get women to buy an inferior product under the guise that they are not treating us like idiots. They changed the design of their boxes and mock the commercials of other products, but in the end they sell an inferior product. It's like saying "If you don't buy our product, then you are a mindless sheep and falling for the propaganda of our competitors." They are trying to make their pads and tampons a status symbol for the edgy, intelligent woman and it's bullshit.

On a side note, no woman has ever been THAT excited about yogurt in her life. Those commercials are also annoying bullshit.