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Boardwalk Empire

Discussion in 'TV Shows' started by dubyu tee eff, Sep 17, 2010.

  1. KIMaster

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    Very good episode. Yeah, the two executions were handled excellently, if slightly unbelievably; I can understand one of them being idiot enough to talk shit, but two out of three? I agree that "you kinda talked me into it" was a great line.

    However, I also loved the beating of the photographer as well as Van Alden's utterly insane, unprofessional appeal to Margaret Schroeder's eternal soul. Michael Shannon is simply awesome as that character. And I agree that Jack Huston as Richard Harrow is solid; it's impressive that he has crafted a real individual out of such limited screentime.

    It would have been a great episode if not for two weaknesses. Firstly, Kelly MacDonald needs to learn a different way of emoting than "appearing moderately concerned/constipated" for every single reaction shot. A bunch of otherwise solid scenes were largely ruined thanks to this, including the final one.

    Secondly, the development of the lesbian relationship continues to confound me. The proper development would be for the photographer's wife to be furious with Angela and never want to see her again. For starters, their affair seemed like a mere dalliance, considering the interplay during the almost threesome, as well as the cold, distant reception husband and wife both gave Angela and her paintings once Jimmy came back.

    But even assuming it was something deeper, she is perfectly fine with her husband and meal ticket being incapacitated, and just wants to head out to Paris supporting a random child, with neither of them having any real vocations to speak of?

    Come on now; neither of the women has been portrayed as a wild, idealistic Bohemian with no cares or concerns. One is an older married woman, and the other has a child.

    It's a way to produce additional plot points and eat up more minutes in future episodes, (including the scene where the photographer either kills himself or goes after Jimmy in a lunatic attack) but it doesn't make any goddamn sense.

    Anyways, I think the series has really picked up again the last 2-3 episodes, and I'm real excited for the conclusion to this season.
     
  2. Kubla Kahn

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    I thought it was good. The double gun draw was way over the top but what ever. I think Rothstein will make a deal to coexist with Nucky.

    I think the lesbo stuff is probably the weakest storyline (Capone wanting to be a man could take up half the show for all Im concerned). I don't know Kimmy if youve known real artsy bohemian types, they are that flaky and retarded in following what their souls tell them. I think the show has made it pretty clear that they are dumb idealistic bohemian types. If it weren't for Van Alden breaking down and sending all of Jimmy's money she would have had to started eating her own paints for food.


    I second the ditsy baboon mouth girl having a rocking body. I'd like to see her nekkid in every scene.
     
  3. Supertramp

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    Van Alden is by far the best character on the show...

    That said, I think this show is much shallower than it wants to seem. It's not a cerebral study of intricate human behavior like Breaking Bad, the Wire or even the Sopranos. It's not a well designed, well re-created imagining of a different age like Mad Men or Deadwood. It's not even a good gangster series as far as I'm concerned. It tries to be a bit of Mad Men, a bit of the Wire (yo, Omar's comin') and a bit of Deadwood (historical fiction).

    It's not as good as Mad Men because the lead characters are very shallow in comparison: Nucky wants to keep the status quo and will keep greasing anybody he has to - it's the extent of his character. His support for female suffrage turned out to be just so he could keep anything from changing, big surprise. Jimmy is a cliche'd PTSD who just happens to be the best tactician since Napoleon. Fluff. And you could sprinkle in a couple of bumbling cops, a very strong villain-type and a few love interests to keep the B, C and D plots running.

    Not so difficult prediction: Paz de la Huerta's character ends up revealing Nucky's weaknesses/flaws/plans/money/whatever to van Alden next episode-- and she'll do it out of "feminine envy" toward Margaret.
    ...

    I could type out other arguments using the Wire and Deadwood as examples but my point is pretty clear: it's a pretty shallow show.

    I'm still going to watch it till the finale but, to take a line from Mad Men, I expected the moon.
     
  4. KIMaster

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    I simultaneously agree and disagree. No, "Boardwalk Empire" is not particularly deep or intricate. But the same applies to at least 98% of TV shows and movies that people adore, yourself included. (And it's true of me, too) Hell, you could copy and paste your criticism, with minor alterations, about half the film "classics" out there. Think about how many of them truly rise well beyond the standard archetypes and have an interesting, original concept which they execute brilliantly.

    I haven't seen either "The Wire" or "Breaking Bad", but among all the TV shows that I have, only "Mad Men" has accomplish this. Not "Dexter", certainly not "The Sopranos", "Lost", "24", etc, etc.

    But accept "Boardwalk Empire" for what it is; a fun premise which is as good in "Mad Men" in re-creating the feel of an era visually, if not aurally, (or at least our perception of it) and is bolstered by solid directing, and several excellent acting performances. It's an entertaining, good (not great) work of historical fiction, which television could use way more of.

    I came into it with minimal expectations, and was pleasantly surprised. You came into it with insanely high expectations and were disappointed.
     
  5. Kubla Kahn

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    I think you have a pretty good assessment so far. The show has been getting better but doesnt seem as well crafted on all fronts like some of the other shows you've listed, deadwood specifically. Still it has some great characters played by great actors, given some time to develop and a few tweaks the show could be truly amazing.

    As far as Jimmy, I agree that his tactician skills are questionable but he doesn't act like the typical cliched PTSD vet, even though the PTSD vet character does seemed to be over used a lot these days. I liked Michael Pitt in Larry Clark's Bully but he has to much of a baby face for me to totally believe him being a chess master mafioso.

    edit: I think Kimmy is right about the expectations. I thought The Sopranos was as good as the high acclaim it received. With martin Scorsese producing a gangster series created by one of the major players behind The Sopranos I have been let down a little. That is not to say the series isn't good but it is not nearly as good as a handful of other series.
     
  6. Mike Ness

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    Thank You! I hate to shit on an otherwise good episode but WTF?

    Dear Boardwalk Empire,

    The show you have constructed is extremely compelling therefore please remove the lesbians because they offer nothing to the story.

    Your friends at TIB


    I also completely fast forwarded the widows speech, I knew I could look at Nucky's reaction to see if she did what he had asked. I then could easily tell that she felt like he was using her and she compromised her integrity, all in fast forward.

    The battle against Rothstien is so good it dominates any other storyline. VanAlden is still good, but the lesbians and the widow are killing me.
     
  7. scotchcrotch

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    I believe the lesbo plot being irrelevant was made about Margaret Schroeder a few pages back. Her character is turning into a key point in the current plot.

    Hopefully the lesbos will do the same, and if not, who cares? It's lesbians!
     
  8. Mike Ness

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    Schroeder is relevant because she is obviously going to bring down Nucky or cause him huge problems in the future. She is far from interesting though.
     
  9. Guy Fawkes

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    Hahaha the bohemian lesbian left Jimmy's wife HANGING!

    The scene with her walking back into the apartment and finding that Jimmy already found the note was priceless. Jimmy telling his son that soon they'd be "up till all hours, just the boys" was perfect too. Jimmy's annoying artist girlfriend gets written out, Jimmy's hot as fuck mom will be the motherly figure for his son. Excellent.

    So who the fuck is poisoning the Commodore? I mean if it's the maid I'll be pissed because that's too fucking obvious. Nucky? Maybe I missed it but if the Commodore is going to live then shit just got a little more interesting.

    The only thing I didn't like was how many new story lines the show kicked off simultaneously. The IRS agent being murdered, Margaret Schroder leaving Nucky and moving out of Whore Mansion, the Commodore being poisoned, Rothstein going to Chicago, Eli getting shit canned... too much.
     
  10. whathasbeenseen

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    I was under the impression that Jimmy's mom was doing it. Recall the scene where she was super coy about how much money the Commodore had and who it would go to in his death? After he confronted her he told his cunty baby momma that the Commodore would live.

    Seriously I was praying out loud to the TV Gods that he'd have read the note before she came in. What a cunty thing to do. Take this man's son after hes come back from war and leave him to go to Paris? And the shit this bitch was saying about him and Jillian when the little boy was asking why they weren't coming. Clearly he'd associate them 'not liking Paris' with them not loving him enough to come along. Selfish cunt.

    As well the scene where the photographer's wife was saying "We'll buy whatever we need when we get there". Bitch, the fuck you gonna get the money to buy a goddamned thing? Oh, thats right, steal it from your husbands. Dirty bitches.

    And what the fuck was with Nelson drowning the other agent? That dude is crazy for real and not for play.
     
  11. Mike Ness

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    Van Alden is the craziest character on TV right now.

    The line Rothstein says about "If a girl goes to bed with nine guys, who's going to believe her when she says the tenth one's the father? Is right out of wikipedia, I really hope it's true because it's great.

    I'm kind of squirming in annoyance because I just want to watch scenes involving Rothstien vs. Nucky or Van Alden, however getting rid of the stupid lesbo love plot makes me happy. Jimmy and his father can be an interesting story line, they kind of foreshadow another person trying to undermine Nucky.

    Also can anyone explain to me why Nucky sent the agent to a black bible congregation? Was that an accident that they happened on them?

    Also this is worth the quick read, the way Rothstein handles the police after he get's shot is so fucking gangster. I got to find a good book on this guy.

    <a class="postlink" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Rothstein" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnold_Rothstein</a>
     
  12. Juice

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    Nucky sent him out there so he could regain some credibility with Van Alden as an agent, but I think they just happened to stumble upon a baptism in progress. I guess hes out of the way for Nucky one way or another, assuming Van Alden has no proof of anything.

    I dont think the murder was preconcieved, but when the preacher said "He [Christ] hears everybody everywhere, every road leads to reckoning," Van Alden found his religion again and made his decision to kill him, despite having about 30 witnesses present.

    I couldnt put my finger on it, but I knew he looked like someone else:

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  13. KIMaster

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    Well, the series certainly has been on a nice hot streak recently. The episode was excellent, with Van Alden continuing to be the second-best, most important character after Nucky, and the return of Eli in another great scene. (Really good actor) The Margaret and lesbian story lines were probably resolved as well as they possibly could have been, and there were plenty of significant development.

    The fact that the Commodore was being poisoned was very obvious from his rapid weakening, and confirmed when Jimmy threw up. Honestly, it doesn't make sense that anyone other than the black maid could have done it, but it seems they're implying that either Gillian did it herself, or recruited the maid to help her.

    As for Van Alden drowning Sebso, that was meant to be ambiguous. Either his religious mania got the better of him and Nelson went too far, rationalizing it as God's Providence, or else he knew Sebso was on the take, and was giving him one last chance before killing him.

    Either way, when he just stood there, realizing that Sebso was dead, and finally, slowly looked up at the sky, spread out his arms, and exclaimed "Thou hast fulfilled the judgment of the wicked!" was a terrific moment.
     
  14. Supertramp

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    The way the maid wanted to take the cookies outta the room could be a red herring. Or, like... and actual herring.
     
  15. Vanilla

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    So what's going on with Luciano? He hasn't been in the last two episodes if I'm not mistaken. I know he was arrested with Jimmy, but they (presumably) didn't have anything to hold him on. So what gives?

    I gotta agree, I'm glad the lesbo shit is done. I'd be a bit more disappointed if it was a) more raunchy or b) involving chick with nicer boobs. The aftermath of the lesbo stuff is gonna be alot more interesting than the lesbo stuff itself.

    And, honestly, can we just fucking kill off Margaret? Her acting caliber reminds me of Robin on How I Met Your Mother. Extremely hit or miss, and capable of making you awkward when she's acting poorly.

    Van Alden is out of his mind batshit fucking crazy. I gotta agree with Guy Fawkes on this though, I don't like how they're tossing out plots that are actually intriguing. I mean, I'm impressed that they can do this. Most TV shows would try and run with something like the dirty IRS agent as the main plot of a string of 4 episodes before doing something new, but this show can just ditch a plot no problem. Still, I would have liked to see Van Alden catch Sebso more red-handed. I mean sure, the murder played into the craziness of Van Alden, but I don't think it was worth writing off a character. Would have preferred if he had killed the dumb Irish bitch. Or even Lucy.
     
  16. Juice

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    The finale last night was pretty good, it set the stage for next season really well. Personally, I think Eli and Jimmy may not be into it and will side with Nucky in the end. Jimmy hated his father up until that point, and now decides to side with him? Also, I dont think Eli will cross his brother. Im assuming the Commodore suspects Nucky is behind the maid poisoning him (which he definitely is by what the maid said).

    Some other thoughts:

    Nelson getting Lucy pregnant was great and as soon as she appeared in his doorway I knew right away. I cant wait to see what happens with that next season.

    I guess Jimmy's wife might be going to Paris after all? Thats what I thought when she cut off her hair after he told her how much he missed it during the war.

    The slaying of the brothers was clearly a homage to the Godfather montage and was executed pretty well.
     
  17. Mike Ness

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    Jimmy's wife is really begging for it. The guy had been pretty decent, especially considering the time period. He could probably beat her senseless and not even get a bad look from anyone let alone arrested.

    What is wrong with Eli? Is it just extreme jealousy? Nucky takes pretty good care of him and is not holding him back. Eli hardly strikes me as someone that would be more than a sheriff. I don't understand why he was fired and rehired, I'm not sure if that was a political play or Nucky showing Eli whose boss.

    Anyway good season, good show.
     
  18. JGold

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    I think Eli just feels like he's entitled to more. Not that he has it bad, but look at his life compared to Nucky's. Eli has ambition, and up until this point has been too stupid/hardheaded/stubborn to achieve much else than riding his brother's coattails. Nucky's constant insults finally pushed him over the edge. It'll be interested to see this storyline develop next season. I think Jimmy will need to be pushed a little more to truly turn against Nucky.
     
  19. Parker

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    I thought the finale was excellent, one of the best executed shows since the premiere. The look Rothstein constantly has on his face is just the best. Glad to see Capone back in his serious face. Also Harrow is such a badass. He didn't care about killing that kid.

    I really like the Commodore and it makes since that Jimmy is getting in with this father. He learned that Nucky doesn't care about him, never thought of him as his father and never wanted to be. He also learned that Nucky sort of pushed Gillian on the Commodore and dirty old men are dirty old men. The whole thing with Nucky not realizing what his words do to people are in full effect.

    I am not buying that the maid was poisoning the Commodore on her own. Gillian had to be in on it, maybe with some knowledge from Nucky who might be tired of paying the guy off all the time. All I know is that it is going to be one hell of a show with a dedicated Van Alden, and the new team trying to take down Nucky.

    We also definitely need more Chalky White. He obviously is a layered character, as layered as this show is going to get. Now what the hell am I going to watch now?
     
  20. KIMaster

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    Pretty mediocre end to a string of very good episodes. A friend and I wrote an epic amount about the finale to one another, so here's the most relevant portions;

    Nice speech by Van Alden to start things off. At this point, he is the most riveting character of the show, even moreso than Nucky. This is reinforced later on with the terrific scene of him cleaning out his desk, suddenly composing himself when he learns a woman is there to see him, and then being crestfallen when it's Lucy instead of Margaret. By the way, there really is no justice in a world where actors like Michael Shannon, who was cast in films by Lumet and Herzog, has to appear in "Pearl Harbor", "Bad Boys 2", "Kangaroo Jack", "8 Mile", and quite recently, "Jonah Hex".

    As for the black maid, Nucky is probably allowing her to go unharmed because Gillian is the one who told her to do it, and wants to protect her.

    Sadly, they picked a bad episode to uncork the lamest, most cliche, against character scene in the series so far; Jimmy breaking down over his generic PTSD. Wasn't he hardened after his time in Chicago? And sure, I can buy a tough, cold-blooded killer breaking down at some point, (it's been done before in plenty of movies successfully) but not with the words and facial expressions he used there. Awful and cringe-worthy.

    The boring character of Angela and her overly predictable histrionics didn't help matters. I can't blame the actress, either; I've seen her in some movies, and she's quite good. The character is just written that poorly.

    And was there a better illustration of the whole Nucky-Margaret dynamic throughout the season than them talking in his parlor before a party? Buscemi absolutely carried that scene on his shoulders, exhibiting the perfect blend of jaded knowledge, weariness, sadness, regret, and inevitability. His body language was perfect, the pauses between words were precise, everything was phenomenal. Meanwhile, Kelly MacDonald? A relative stage prop. She wasn't even bad, it's just that she added nothing to the scene except for the same dull mannerisms thousands of other actresses can replicate just as easily.

    Nice killing montage, and great quip with "what is that? Dale Carnegie?".

    I don't really care for the resentment and potential betrayal Jimmy and Eli show towards Nucky, and the theme it's supposed to illustrate about his character.

    See, Thompson is basically the King/God of his part of the world. Like any sovereign, he can be cruel, arrogant, dismissive, and duplicitous. While this is common knowledge by those around him, he is nevertheless their ruler, under whose command they benefit.

    Jimmy and Eli are the nobles of his court, and owe everything positive in their lives to him. The insults and injustices he deals them, as long as they don't cut too deep, are forgiven/disregarded, as they are by any royal court.

    That's what separates a King/God from a common person. The former is accepted for everything, the bad as well as the good. He/she is not judged as normal humans are.

    Thus, Jimmy and Eli suddenly railing against what they have known and dealt with for their entire lives makes no sense, except to push a certain theme in the season finale, and set up an arc for the beginning of the next one. By the way, shouldn't Jimmy be thankful as fuck that Nucky spared his mother?

    On the whole though, the season has been good, and I am definitely looking forward to its follow-up, but it certainly has its share of flaws.

    Edit-

    The way he is written now, he is basically the most boring male personality on the show. He's essentially "generic badass black guy". The actor is doing a decent job, and Chalky White serves his purpose, but there's not even a single interesting layer to him, let alone several.