But Seriously...

I'll chime in on this one too. I have a lot of friends who are cops and not a single one of them went into the profession racist or with a chip on their shoulder against any segment of society. They simply wanted a job and to help their community.

What they encountered on the job day in and day out turned them racist and angry. Being hated simply because of what your job is can do that to a person. Being spit on, yelled at, threatened with violence, and just general hatred in almost every encounter every day will change your world view.

Strangely enough, you know who they hate the most? Lawyers. My friends have told me they are the absolute worst for even a simple traffic stop for an expired tag, brake light out, whatever. They immediately go into defensive mode and demand a badge number, declare they're a lawyer and know the law, and are just general assholes. What would've been a simple fix it ticket and the world keeps spinning, turns into as many tickets as the cop can think of.

I've had ugly experiences with cops and in every single one I was the one who escalated it with my mouth. I'm actually surprised that I haven't been beaten with a billy club a few times when I was younger because I sure as shit deserved it.

 

Ok, a few things here:

1) regarding being top of the target list for criminals if you open carry: if you open carry, it's actually gonna put you at the bottom. Criminals don't want to be caught, they certainly don't want to be shot. They're gonna go for the woman with a purse they can snatch who can't chase after them because she's in heals that make it difficult to run as is.

2) regarding a deterrent for people to get into stupid fights: it's actually gonna be the opposite. People fight, in your scenario, to gain social status. For that they need an audience, and they need to overcome some perceived disadvantage against them. As a licensed handgun carrier, you're held to an extremely high "reasonable person" standard. You're only gonna use that gun if you're absolutely certain your life is presently in danger, and even if you lawfully deploy a deadly weapon you're still in for a world of hurt with the civil courts for a long time. So whomever wants to start a stupid fight with you, will certainly do it if you're carrying a gun, because they know you damn well won't use it and kicking someone's ass when they have a gun is likely on their bucket list or close.

3) you are absolutely correct about those wannabe tough guys. They're the exact reason I have gotten so much negative feedback from the few who know I am currently pursuing my concealed carry. Those fuckers who tell everyone about how bad ass they are for carrying a gun and show it and talk about it, are giving everyone else who carries properly a bad reputation. If you are carrying correctly and safely, almost or preferably zero people will know. The first time you want someone to know you have a firearm on you is when they see that muzzle flash as you are protecting your life from their deadly attack. Unfortunately, there are many people who carry simply because they believe it makes them look, act, or feel more intimidating and in control. These are the people who have no business with a CHL.

In my opinion, the open carry law won't have a big impact. Not a lot of people will do it, and those who are dumb enough to do it will do so in violation of the new laws and quickly lose their license.

 

I have a huge problem with open/carry.

I've been around folks that open/carry and they make me nervous a fuck. They walk with the swagger of an old west gun fighter as if that piece on their side makes them invincible.You don't need to advertise that you're well prepared to fight back if the need arises.Conceal/carry your gun is just as easily accessible.

Not to mention, if I was an unarmed criminal you know who the first person I'd get a weapon from? That dipshit with a gun on his side that everyone can see. I'd hit him in the back of the head with a baseball bat and now I have a gun.

 

I don't see what the big deal about open carry is so long as it's kept in a holster. I read an article awhile back about pro gun protesters camped outside a starbucks who kept walking in carrying their rifles and shotguns at the hip, and that's really fucking stupid. Having a pistol in a holster doesn't seem like that big of a deal to me.

That being said, for the vast majority of people there's no need to carry a gun with you everywhere, unless you actually have some fantasy in the back of your mind that you're going to stop the next Sandy Hook. It makes me laugh when someone who carries says something to the effect of "If someone fucks with me, I'll kill their ass!" Actually, if I want to kill you I'll just walk up behind you and blow your head off. Sorry, you lose. Being armed isn't going to save your sorry ass the vast majority of the time. Most murders aren't random. The murderer has a motive and a clear plan as to how to kill their target. In those cases having a gun isn't very likely to help you. I also don't want you to try to be a hero if there's an armed robbery at the gas station, or whatever the hell your reason for carrying everywhere is in the first place. Not that I care if people want to or not in general, it just seems like the hassle of carrying a gun everywhere isn't worth it.

 

Can we just call the concept of deploying a personal firearm to defend ones life a fantasy?

Open carry makes me nervous as fuck. You know why? Because everyone I know who uses a gun professionally doesn't do it. Only the tacticool fucktards practice open carry and I don't trust their judgment.

Logically you are infinitely more likely to have some sort of mishap than actually save a life or prevent a crime. Worst case scenario you escalate the existing situation by pulling a gun out.

My point is simple: no one carrying a gun has humane intentions. I'd rather be out the $200 in my wallet than have a death on my conscience.

 

People with guns are also more likely to use them. That good or bad? I don't know. But the yokels I see around town or in the news make me think it's bad.

If I see anyone walking around with an AR-15 I will call the cops. To me, open carry means someone is about to imminently open fire. But they could totally be a hero except for, you know, the dozens of people minding their own business now caught in a retard crossfire. But fuck those people anyway for not giving themselves enough freedom.

This bothers me. Example number two should be mowed down on site:

 

Holy fuck what a piece of shit the guy in 2nd pic is. A guy carrying an AR-15 openly already makes me suspicious, but any asshole who's going to do that and cover his face is telling everyone that he's up to no good. I don't see how anyone would want to tolerate that in their community.

 

People with guns are more likely to use them than people without guns? No way.

Maybe it's me and what I am used to but I am not the least bit put off by people openly carrying. Firearms are nothing more than a tool to me, no different than seeing someone openly carrying a Leatherman. You can't tell me that you can't read body language and facial expressions to know the difference between people who are calm and those who are aggressive to know when there is danger. At the end of the day, in order to legally carry a weapon openly or concealed you need to pass a background check. If you are a violent criminal then you can't carry to begin with, right? If you brandish, threaten or use a firearm in the commission of a crime.....they are all crimes with escalating levels of punishment.

Though, I do agree, example two is a pathetic fuckwad. If you are too scared to show your face in public based on your behavior then you shouldn't be behaving in that fashion.

 

I'd be a hell of a lot more scared of a guy walking around Walmart with a massive blade on his hip/back/underarm than someone doing the same with a firearm.

It takes a lot less ability (and it's quicker) to stab or slash someone than it does to aim and shoot someone.

I'm in the "a gun is a tool" camp. Effectively using a firearm is a skill, as it is exceedingly difficult to hit someone who is on the move, especially from distance, and especially with a pistol.

Best way to avoid the potential for any harm if you see someone open carrying a pistol? Keep a minimum distance of about 15 yards between you and them.

 

Why should somebody visibly carrying a gun be given a fifty-foot radius bubble? A "tool" doesn't cause that sort of nervousness or threat where you have to give up your freedom in public because some strapped, spooky-looking guy makes everyone around him profile him on sight. I see a hunting rifle as a tool because you can pack your freezer with one, feeding yourself good, fresh fucking meat AND on the cheap certainly makes perfect sense. I know a few people that love gun ranges and go target-shooting with various handguns, an environment that is regulated and safe with responsible people at them. But a handgun being carried on the streets is a defence weapon. Tools build, fix, adjust and create but the handgun on the street is used to defend yourself because there are bad people with handguns. Outside a controlled environment it's only endgame as a "tool" is to shoot a human being, regardless of context.

Your country's gun control debate is infinity. Like arguing politics and religion, each side has their own points and refuse to back down. Gun enthusiasts can't convince their naysayers that most gun owners ARE in fact very safe and responsible, and the Anti-gun crowd can't convince naysayers thayt nobody is "coming to get their guns".

America is The Gun Country and its obvious guns aren't going away. Both Conservatives and Liberals are gun owners who like them and the talking points between the supporters and opponents of guns will always bounce off each other. Congress and the Senate will never agree. Eventually a President will have to issue an executive decision that will change the rules dramatically in some way--whether it be one way or the other-- for firearms in America. And whether the change make things happen or better or worse, at least something will have been TRIED instead of this bitter, never-ending stalemate. Something radical needs to be done because let's face it, shootings and mass shootings are becoming far too commonplace.

 

Fair enough. You make valid points. My reasoning in comparing them to a tool is that they are no more or less dangerous than a tool if used in the proper manner by someone skilled in their use. However, I grew up learning to safely use firearms before I ever hammered a nail or cut wood, so I can see how they would be intimidating if you are not intimately familiar with them and comfortable in their presence.

As far as open carry, I'm a huge fan of it. Because very, very quickly there will be a lot of idiots losing their concealed permits, having their firearms legally confiscated, getting the crap sued out of them and possibly put behind bars. Pardon the pun, but the gun advocates who pushed for it shot themselves in the foot with this one. Social Darwinism at its best! Simply brandishing a weapon (or threatening to use it) can be assault. And I'm willing to bet any person dumb enough to open carry is not going to consider that.

It's called respect. And it's called "concealed" permit for a reason. Because it's supposed to be CONCEALED. If carrying in the open is going to cause someone else undue stress or otherwise upset them, why the hell not just use an inside the waistband holster?

I support the right to defend yourself, not the right to scare the crap out of people. I apologize if me saying that one has little reason to be scared of someone open carrying, was construed me supporting it as smart and socially proper thing to do.

 

Sorry to double post but, upon re-reading this, you brought up something I wish people would discuss more.

The problem isn't so much guns, it's the people who own them and vocally (and, as is the case with lobbying groups, financially) support them. America is full of idiots, as is every other country. Unfortunately, it's also very easy to get guns here. No IQ test to purchase one, no mandatory safety and proficiency course, no way to verify the owner even knows the laws or cares about anyone's safety but his own. Thus you have idiots walking around with guns blabbing shit about "protecting my constitutional right" and scaring the crap out of people when most of the time the people saying that don't know what the Second Ammendment says or in what context it was written.

I WISH, as your post so perfectly highlighted, that this wasn't a black and white issue for everyone. You don't have to be either for or against guns. It is possible for one to take the middle ground, though unfortunately that's not what politics and the media has taught us. Fact of the matter is, many gun owners are not safe. Many gun owners haven't even fired their weapon. Many gun owners don't even go to a range or safe place to shoot in order to get that muscle memory required to be safe and effective with a firearm.

I love my wife to death and she wants me to have that "just in case" protection in our home (in fact she got me a finger print reading gun safe for the night stand this Xmas). But there's no way in hell I'd want her near a gun, because she is so scared of them she'd be a danger to herself and others if she ever held one. But people don't like admitting that they don't know or can't do something. And until America fixes the problem of people owning firearms when they don't know much about them or can't use them safely, there's always going to be a problem with guns as a result.

When a shooting happens, you don't put the gun in jail; you jail the person who used it. So fix the gun owners, gun enthusiasts, gun advocates, gun nuts and people who trumpet language they've never actually read. And if the government does take their guns away, you know what? They probably fucking deserved it.

You gotta pass a test to drive a car. Why don't you have to pass a test to own another kind of potentially deadly weapon?

 

Regarding open carry, I see this kind of the same way I do people losing their shit over minimal amounts of religious symbology in public office. I just find it ridiculous that people care so much one way or the other. Why are you so scared of someone who is armed with their gun in their holster? You know they can legally carry anyway. Conversely, why do you care so goddamn much if your gun is visible or not? Why is this so important to you?

I will say though, the part of about wannabe tough guy morons getting the concealed carry licenses is kind of true in my experience.

Most people aren't though. By and large I really don't think it's as partisan as the media portrays it. Most people I've met, liberal or conservative, want reasonable regulations and don't think the nazis are going to take their guns. I've actually never even met someone who literally wanted all guns banned.

What I do find hilarious is the gun violence maps the real gun nuts do post. They aren't even remotely correlated with reality. Someone drew it up to claim democratic voting and more regulations always leads to more violence. Except, they clearly just filled it in with crayon and didn't check any actual data. A couple years ago there was an e-mail chain floating around called 'A little gun history.' Basically, it claimed every genocide ever was preceded by dictators banning guns. It is hilariously wrong and totally out of touch with what has actually happened in human history.

 

I am as liberal as it gets and I hate gun laws and regulation. I like my guns, I enjoy them as a hobby and I recognize how impossible it will be to get rid of them.

I dislike the idea that an untrained gun owner can deploy a firearm to prevent a crime because that outcome is astronomically less likely than a tragedy. I think it's a cowboy fantasy that can't realistically drive policy.

We somehow have to reconcile that guns are widely owned and rarely used for their supposed "protect/defend" purpose. Even law enforcement can't (for reasons inexplicable to me) be trained to use firearms in a non-lethal manner. We buy millions of guns and they pose a greater risk to safety than any pro ported benefit. We have thus far accepted this as part of American life, but with the rise of reporting around mass shootings, I wonder how long it will continue to be part of our culture.

I also think the gun culture is a big divide between conservative and liberal, rural and urban, etc.

 

Regarding gun violence, the murder rate has been plummeting for decades. It's still a big problem, but I think people should probably keep that fact in mind when saying "Holy shit, when are we going to do something about this?"

 

Oh, and just because I don't want to let this go quite yet, for those who are ardent feminists, can I ask why? What the fuck is the point of modern feminism?

Let's see: Their three biggest complaints are:

- Income inequality. Except this is fake math. When accounting for the same careers women earn 99% of what men earn, even though men work longer hours on average. This is clearly bullshit. Why do people keep saying this? It is not society's fault if women choose to become school teachers or work part time favoring their children. Why are people complaining about this? What the fuck is their point?
- Rape culture: It. does. not. exist. These stats are completely made up. They have no basis in any study. Even when feminists conduct their own studies and try to cheat they can't create the numbers they spout off. Also, there is ZERO fucking basis for the claim that less than 1% of rape accusations are false. No one can give a definitive answer, but it seems to be between 15-20%. Also, what the fuck is a rape apologist? I have never seen anyone in the main stream defend rape and get applauded. What the fuck are you even talking about?
- Male dominated fields. They are male dominated because women don't seek employment. That is the reason. That is the only reason. If it bothers you so much then GO FUCKING PURSUE THAT CAREER.

So what is male privilege these days? What does that entail? What does that even mean? By all means, explain it to me.

I'm sorry, but literally everything feminists seem to say when complaining about inequality these days is based either on a complete misrepresentation of the facts, or wholly made up statistics.

Also, for any guys who want to jump on me for this: go ahead, but be really fucking sure you know what you're talking about. Last time I brought this up a couple of members jumped in to 'educate' me and call me a misogynist and clearly had not a single fucking clue what was happening in modern feminism. By all means disagree, but don't be a fucking tool, please.

 

Really know what I'm talking about? Why should I have to when you don't? And you sit and plead for other people to not be a tool yet feel free to act like one yourself?

I'm not going to debate Feminism with you because you've made it clear there's no point. You've completely made up your mind that Feminism is pointless and made it clear you won't accept any argument that conflicts with your already held opinions and beliefs. Trying to debate Feminism with you would be like arguing with a truther.

 

BWAHAHAHAHA. You're obviously wrong, but I can't say why because I don't want to argue with you. So I wrote this to say that you're wrong. And I'm not saying anything because... you're wrong and stuff. Were you trying to fit the stereotype of an idiotic feminist with no argument EXACTLY? Bravo sir, you have down to a fucking T.

 

Of course you're congratulating me; it was exactly the response you were looking for to feed your sense of smugness. Obvious troll is obvious.