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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. goodlife23

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    I'll disagree on two points of the above. Sanders isn't advocating for free health care or paid maternity leave. His health care plan is outlined on his site here:https://berniesanders.com/issues/medicare-for-all/

    Basically, employers pay a 6.2% income based tax and employees would pay 2.2% income based tax. It's essentially how it works now for SS and Medicare. His argument is that employers who currently pay for their employees' health care will pay less in taxes overall that in premiums they are currently paying. Same for employees who currently now pay a premium; what the average family making $50,000 a year would pay in taxes would be significantly less than what they are currently paying now in insurance premiums.

    He would also raise the marginal rate of income taxes on top earners.

    Obviously, one could argue that it would cost way more,but it is not true that he is offering free health care.

    Same on the issue of paid maternity leave. He contends it would cost a couple dollars a paycheck in exchange for 12 paid weeks maternity or family leave. Real world examples in California and New Jersey show that the relatively low cost is realistic.

    I'm not arguing over whether these are achievable or economically sound policy (I believe the answer is yes to both), just pointing out that Sanders' economic platform isn't "here's a bunch of free stuff." It's expanding the welfare state to be similar to many European countries.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    That was way more entertaining than I thought it was going to be.

    That is a whole lot of fucking nuts right there.
     
  3. ODEN

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    I suppose it is easier to watch this than talk about it. How many people here have been hit hard? How many people do you know that supported this and the President's agenda who are just now realizing what a mistake this was? Where are we going to go from here as Obamacare is really not working and crippling small businesses and working class people?
     
  4. The Village Idiot

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    Ok, this generalized 'Obamacare sucks' stuff is getting very old. Let me state: I am not a fan of it in its current form, however, I do believe it is a small step in the right direction.

    So a quick lesson on evaluating videos/articles/etc. This 'report' - and the quotes I use are to denote that I'm using the word 'report' loosely - is shoddy.

    How so?

    Ok, first and foremost, it starts out with the conclusion that the ACA raised the rates on these poor working class folks. Here's my question: How? Did the Act require that these people pay more by statutory mandate? Did the company switch plans? Did they switch plans within the same company but have to change to a plan that was more expensive because it didn't previously cover things that are now required? Did they switch companies? What is the company itself paying for health care? What did it pay previously? Did it reduce its premiums? Did the increase in deductibles reflect a change in the premiums paid? The report addresses none of that and instead in pure sensationalism starts throwing numbers at you showing how Obamacare makes them pay more (is this station a Fox Affiliate, perchance?) without actually showing (or even asking) why those increases happened.

    A few things about the ACA: First and foremost - except for folks within a certain amount of the poverty line (which I believe is in the neighborhood of $24,250 a year for a family of four) - this is not a government insurance plan like Medicare/Medicaid. What the ACA does is 'require' you to go out and purchase health care insurance on the open market. This is not socialism, this is what I term 'hyper capitalism' - namely, the 'market' left tens of millions of Americans without health insurance, so to decrease that number, the ACA says 'you must go buy some' or pay a fine of approximately $695.

    Now, on a sliding scale, people are entitled for tax subsidies to help them pay for plans. So yes, the government is in a sense assisting certain lower income folks (ones that don't qualify for Medicaid - see above poverty line amount) by cutting them a tax break. The States and Federal Government in States that have rejected the ACA have set up exchanges. All the exchanges really are is a market place for private insurers to offer health care insurance. Then, the website essentially takes into account what you make, how many people in your family, etc. and show you what your final cost a month under that plan would be and if you're preliminarily eligible for subsidies.

    Now of course, you can forego all of that and pay the $695 a year and not pay 'horrible Obamacare health care premiums' which works out to about $60 a month.

    Now the argument will be 'but you can't live without health care, it's too expensive!!!!!!' Yes, hence the need for, wait for it, some reform of the health care system, and in the case, the ACA (which for all you fellow Republicans is nothing more than the Dole health care proposal in the 90's and the one instituted by Romney in Massachusetts). But by all means, lets not get stuck on the facts, let's watch retarded reports with horrible methodology and scream about how evil Obama is without a shred of support (BIAS ALERT: I am not particularly a fan of Obama, as he is essentially Bush Part III).
     
  5. Frebis

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    I'm not sure how much time you have spent in the New Albany/ Gahanna area. I used to live two miles from this restaurant. It is in the middle of a very white parts of town. There are no minorities until you get close to Easton.

    The restaurant used to be over toward Cleveland and 161. That area would have made much more sense for this attack to take place.

    My wife and I used to eat there a few times a month. The owner walks around with a baseball bat. I like to think he and the machete man got into a fight.

    I also don't think the BLM folks will take this one up. But I could be wrong.
     
  6. Frebis

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    I understand. Sorry for being dumb. They make a really good gyro. Im also glad crafted drafts was spared.
     
  7. dewercs

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    If your name is Amy Lindsay make some fucking lemonade today, your 15 minutes just started.
    Also if you like vetting actors for political commercials the Ted Cruz campaign is hiring.
     
  8. toytoy88

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    Apparently the Mizzou students have learned nothing:

    Journos kicked out of Concerned Student 1950 town hall at Mizzou, threatened with arrest

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2016/02/1...zou-threatened-with-arrest.html?intcmp=hplnws

    In this story is this little gem aimed at a white student reporter:

    Schierbecker was one of two student journalists who got into a confrontation with Professor Melissa Click during protests on campus last November when Concerned Student 1950 first garnered national attention.
     
  9. ODEN

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    While I agree with some of what you say and this video doesn't tell a full story, the reality remains that I can't think of a single person over the last few years who hasn't seen premiums and deductibles rise for apples-to-apples coverage over the last few years. We were sold on the idea that the marketplace would force competition and bring down costs.

    What benefit am I getting from this? This was talked up like a benefit; the poors now need to get insured or pay a penalty, my taxes didn't go down? My premiums continue to rise, my out of pocket continues to rise, what is the benefit here?

    Small anecdote for you: I have an acquaintance who owns a business with a few locations, they now have more than 50 employees. One of the nasty side effects of the 50 employee threshold is that you must provide affordable healthcare options. I don't know all of the details of it but essentially his benefits coordinator has to develop plans that are affordable based on wages paid, in order to get the numbers to work, his cost was $400 per head per week. This is for people making $12 an hour. This is a company that has receipts of around $3MM a year. So essentially one third of all revenue will be dedicated to healthcare costs? That isn't right.

    Guess what he is doing now? Laying people off and closing a location to get back under 50 employees. It's admirable to want everyone to be cared for but how are you helping people if you cost them their jobs instead?
     
  10. Now Slappy

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    Exactly this. I own my own business, and we've reached the 50 employee threshold. I've had to lay a few people off to keep us just under 50. There is no way we would be able to stay in business and stay profitable if we were required to provide health insurance.

    Since Obamacare went into effect my health insurance has more than doubled along with my deductibles and co-pays. The kicker is that the insurance I'm forced to have now is far inferior to the insurance I had before this debacle. I live in Florida(insert jokes) and insurance companies are running, not walking, out of this state. I've had to reapply for insurance three times since the act went into effect because of companies dropping us and leaving the state.
     
  11. Rush-O-Matic

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    Or, the option I chose was to jack my deductible way up, so I could keep the premiums close. The only reason I've even been able to keep it close, is because I am a member of a professional organization, and have stayed in the group since I started my own company. If I leave, I can't come back and my premiums would be almost double for similar coverage.
     
  12. D26

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    There is zero chance the Senate, controlled by republicans, lets through ANYONE nominated by Obama. Fucking zero chance. As I said in the other thread, Ted Cruz just came in his pants at the idea of what he can do with this. His constituents and republicans in general are desperate for someone who will fight Obama at every turn, and THIS is the kind of thing that Cruz will make into his platform. Not part of... Blocking this confirmation will BE his platform.

    We absolutely will have an 8 person Supreme Court for the foreseeable future.

    The thing to keep in mind is that liberal justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg is old as hell and fought off cancer twice. I thought for sure she'd be the next to go, but I'd be shocked if she is still kicking in 4 years. If they hold off on Scalia and a republican wins, the court will go from 4-4 with a conservative leaning swing vote to 5-3 conservatives with a conservative leaning swing vote.

    If Obama does get a nomination through and a republican wins, the court will only be liberal-leaning as long as Ginsburg is alive, at which point it goes right back to where it is at now.
     
  13. D26

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  14. CharlesJohnson

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    What McConnell and Cruz propose would be the longest amount of time without a full court. If they obstruct Obama on an election year, all I can say is good luck. That is like Russian Roulette. Obama will most likely nominate someone left leaning, but ultimately innocuous as far as liberals go. Do not expect Gloria Alred's twin. So, if the GOP objects and stalls for *11 months* I really do not think that goes over well with voters, especially if important issues get a 4-4 dismissal during not just election year but during the very heart of the election. Now, what if the GOP does this, loses chairs AND loses the White House? Holy shit. Expect Jesse Jackson on the bench. So do they play ball? It is not a foregone conclusion which way whoever gets the nom decides.

    Trump STILL is in play here, too. We have no idea if Trump will win the nomination or go 3rd party if he loses. Even without a majority of GOP voters, he still controls a solid third of the right wing voters, which is a massive chunk going 3rd party. I think they will follow him if he chooses to continue under another ticket. So, if the GOP wants to keep its voting force together to keep their chairs AND pull off a SC upset, they really have to play all of their cards perfectly. Trump is a wildcard if he is elected president. Think of the cretin he'd want to put up. It'd be Judge Judy. Or Wopner. Holy crap there are so many variables in this issue.

    It's a bold move, Cotton. Let's see if it pays off for them.
     
  15. toytoy88

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    That's probably because barring something horrific that no one sees coming, he's a lock for the Republican nomination. I don't see Cruz or Rubio getting numbers better then him. Our country is divided enough now that Trump appeals to a great deal of voters with his shtick.

    Every time he says something bat shit insane that folks proclaim "Hahahaha...Trump just shot himself in the foot!".... he gains more votes.

    Quite honestly given the choice of Sanders, Hillary, or Trump....I'd probably go with Trump. Sanders wants to force charity on me for people I don't know and apparently has no clue how our financial system works, Hillary is just shady as fuck, and Trump? Fuck. Who knows? At the very least it'll probably be entertaining and he'll probably get along with Putin. Does anyone know what the stick up Obama's ass is about Putin?
     
  16. Frebis

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    Just learned I had a friend that was in the restaurant when the machete wielding somolian stopped in. Ive never had national news hit this close to home. Kinda puts this all in a different perspective.
     
  17. toytoy88

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    To give you a scary perspective on the average American, one of my roommates is an attorney. Today he tried telling me about the machete attack: "4 people dead, the guy cut their heads off!"

    Me: Uh no. 4 people were wounded, the attacker was killed by the police.

    Roommate: No. I heard the 911 call on the news.The woman was talking to the police on her phone and the guy chopped her head off!

    Me: We watched the same news report. Where the fuck are you getting this from?

    Roommate: On the news, you heard it.

    *Look up story on web, show him*

    Roommate: But I heard him cut off their heads on the news.

    Me: No you didn't.

    The man is an attorney. Well educated. Supposedly one of the brighter folks in this country. I hear "4 wounded in a machete attack", he hears "4 innocent diners beheaded by terrorist."
     
  18. The Village Idiot

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    On the ACA: Here are several articles I reviewed:

    Forbes Oct 23, 2014
    Forbes Oct 31, 2014
    Kaiser Oct 26, 2015

    What I take from these articles is the ACA has increased premiums for some, decreased for some, and expanded coverage. I suspect until the act has been in place for 5 years (the average time for an economic policy to be fully felt), we won't have a definitive answer.

    On Scalia's Death: This saddens me. Scalia was, by far, the only member that brought intellectual gravitas to the Court. He was one of the few current Justices that wasn't a bag man for the party. There are certainly decisions I disagreed with, but at the very least, he put in the work in justifying those decisions. He was also the best writer on the Court. My big gripe was the Bush v. Gore decision. Frankly, I have referred to the Court as 'the JV Squad' since that decision.' Very very few of the decisions the Court has made since then have been very good, and largely because most of the Court are nothing more than political bagmen/women with credentials.

    On Appointment of New Justice: Obama will appoint a new Justice (as he should under the Constitution). No nominee will meet with Congress's approval. Watching the debate, and subsequent articles, makes clear that the Republicans are poised to do something very stupid: they are going to drag out the nomination process such that the outcome of the election will determine the next Justice. The election is 10 months away. You are therefore going to have a term where you will potentially have ties on many issues. Now, of course, Republicans will justify the delay saying that the nominee is unfit. Depending on how well they are able to smear the nominee (and yes, I'm a conservative and still believe this is the tactic that will be used) and blame Obama for the delay. If they (the Republicans) are unsuccessful, you may well see the greatest voter turnout in American history for the Presidential election. If that happens, a Democrat will win and the Republicans may lose seats in the House and Senate.

    On the Debate: As a conservative, I'd love for the Republican party to find a conservative candidate. To date, I haven't seen one in the debates. As I mentioned in a prior post, I will probably just send my proposed Amendment to my Congressman and State Senator and bask in the resounding non response. I can't bring myself to vote for any of the candidates on the Republican side (as none of them are actually conservatives), I can't bring myself to vote for Hillary (and no, I don't think she's shady, or shadier than any other President over the last 80 years) because I think we will just get continuation of the Reagan/Bush/Obama policies that have been in effect for 40 years. I like Sanders, I really do, but his foreign policy understanding is woefully lacking and frankly I don't think he has the ability to get his agenda passed. I'm tired of having to vote for the lesser of two evils, I'd like for my vote (actually, my recommendation in a Presidential election) to go to someone I really want to be President.
     
  19. Trakiel

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    Call me Caitlyn. Got any cake?

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    That also didn't take long.
     
  20. Popped Cherries

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    The guy isn't even cold yet and people are already talking about how they are going to out scumbag the other guy.

    Honestly, both parties should be fucking ashamed of themselves.