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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Angel_1756

    Angel_1756
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    The Big Four-Oh

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    Yes, and yet.

    I am a non-believer who is employed by the Lutheran (protestant) church. While the majority of people do rally around and provide support to their own members, I've also seen some downright awful stuff from the congregation members. And not just voiced by one asshole and immediately shot down. The following are some of the things (over the last 20 years) that have been brought up for discussion at congregational meetings:

    - "Closed communion" - only raised when a single black family started attending services. They left almost immediately after this issue was mentioned.
    - Cutting pay for a pastor who was childless on the basis that they "didn't need the money".
    - Firing a pastor for having depression on the grounds that he "wasn't able to help others because he couldn't help himself".

    I'm not saying this has anything to do with the church itself - it's a reflection of the members themselves. But when you're already dealing with a collective mentality, all it takes is a loud voice to get the crowd mobilized - for good or bad.
     
  2. Frebis

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    So as a non-believer employed by the church do you take communion?
     
  3. Dcc001

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    I like to draw this parallel:

    Imagine one of the junior VPs at Microsoft was a pedophile. A reporter starts digging around and realizes, holy shit! There might be multiple pedophiles in Microsoft! So a team of reporters starts following leads and claims and over the course of a year come to realize that:

    - Yes, that original dude is a pedophile.
    - Approximately 6-10% of Microsoft employees are active pedophiles.
    - Microsoft is aware of the problem and has an entire system in place that provides legal protection, transfers and "retraining" to anyone with this affliction. It does not go to the police. In fact, it makes a point of talking the police out of a charge when someone tries to file a complaint. It also keeps the victims in close contact with Microsoft employees, thwarts them from seeking counseling (unless it's by someone at Microsoft) and makes sure that the pedophile stays active in the victim's community.

    The story breaks. The question is this...24 hours after the story airs, what is the share value of Microsoft worth?

    Look at what happened with Penn State: The Litany Lions were THE most revered college football team, with THE winningest coach in American history (across any sport), in a game that is held as close as religion to most people. They had ONE guy who was an active pedophile that at least some of the staff knew about. Within a month, they were stripped of everything. Rankings, former titles, scholarship programs, everyone was fired, etc.

    Logically it makes no sense that a faith is treated differently, or that whatever "good" it may of contributed outweighs that kind of crime.

    /End Rant

    They do have some awesome art and buildings. I'll give them that.
     
  4. Angel_1756

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    No. I do not take communion, I don't recite any of the liturgy and I only sing the hymns if no one else knows the tune and they need the voices. No one makes a big deal out of it anymore but the first five years were a hard pitch from the church members for me to join.
     
  5. toytoy88

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    The Catholic Church is not the only one with these problems.

    I grew up Presbyterian and after my grandfather retired as the church's minister we got a new one. Within a year or two, every single family with young daughters had left our church. I knew most of the girls well enough to hear stories directly from them...the new minister was a pedo. It turns out the church had the exact same problem when he was at his previous church and just transferred him up to our remote corner of the world in hopes the problem fixed itself. It didn't.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Do parents ever exact violent revenge in these particular cases? America has Over 5000 documented cases of child sexual abuse within the Catholic Church, you would think with those numbers-- and like you mentioned adding all other denominations/creeds/Mega Churches at least one mom or dad built up the sand to go at them with a piece of steel cable or perhaps a gun.
     
  7. toytoy88

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    Alone in the dark, drooling on himself

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    The church preaches forgiveness, hate the sin, love the sinner. So my guess is no. Besides....killing/beating a priest is surely a one way ticket to hell no matter how many Hail Marys you recite.
     
  8. Angel_1756

    Angel_1756
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    The Big Four-Oh

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    But beating them off? That's the way to pure creamy salvation.
     
  9. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    On the other hand, a lot of these people support the death penalty and get divorced 50% of the time. Which are no-no's according to their rules. People like to bend religion to their favour more than ever these days because of things like a wider acceptance to the LGBT community. Look at how a State like Texas which is filled with Christians runs up the death penalty clock. Met with widespread appeal with the state's residents. Because Jesus is okay with you killing somebody as long as they are a huge asshole.
     
  10. JWags

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    Actually Penn State had most of its penalties and all of its wins and such reinstated. There is still a statue of Paterno. 5-10 years from now its just going to be a footnote about a rogue piece of shit pedophile assistant coach, and not widespread corruption.

    And another difference is that the NCAA was stripping those things from PSU, there is no governing body higher than the church. If it was contained to one diocese and the church punished them, then it would be more similar.

    I'm not Catholic but I think Pope Francis is doing a good job trying to clean up some of the archaic beliefs and dogma that preside over the church. Its amazing to go to any number of Protestant services and see uplifting, positive worship with music and active involvement. Then you go to Catholic masses and its still by and large incredibly traditional, overbearing, and draconian. Doesn't exactly cultivate a spirit of inclusivity for those not brought up in it from birth. My mom's family was very conservative Lutheran, likely similar to Angel's congregation, and the exclusion and judgement was just as strong. Changing to a more contemporary congregation made a big difference. Faith and religion is a very personal thing and flexibility in how to feel and express it is key, not overweight ideology and nebulous threats.


    Ray Donovan did.
     
  11. Dcc001

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    100% agree.
     
  12. toytoy88

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    BLM protests something they feel must somehow be racist and a group caves in. Nothing new here.

    http://www.thecollegefix.com/post/22382/

    This time it's a college Kentucky Derby party. I mean, it's the south so it must be racist right?

    "A group of about 20 protestors crashed the party, standing outside of the May 2 function carrying signs declaring “black rage” and accusations of oppression. They also used a bullhorn to amplify their chants at revelers.

    “I can’t breathe,” was repeated, as well as, “What is Derby? It’s the face of genocide,” and, “What is Derby? It’s the face of police brutality,” according to video of the protest. They also yelled “our brothers are dying, our sisters are dying,” and held a die-in, lying on the street."

    This year the sorority has renamed and re-themed the party. Now they'll celebrate Woodstock.

    A few fun facts about the "Racist" Derby:

    It was started 10 years after the Civil War. In Kentucky. A neutral state.

    It was named after 'The Derby' at Epsom, England... which was named after the 12th Earl of Derby in 1780... who's grandson, the 14th Earl of Derby presented the bill to the British Parliament abolishing slavery throughout its territories.

    You'd think students at a fucking Ivy League school would be smart enough to check into exactly what the fuck the problem is before caving in to a bunch of loudmouths.
     
  13. Pink Candy

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    You didn't hear about the counseling services Emory offered after someone wrote "TRUMP" in chalk on the campus stairs?

    My husband had a few choice words about his law school that day.
     
  14. Nettdata

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    This is not the thread for that.
     
  15. Crown Royal

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    Shit wrong one sorry

    Sanders won Wyoming, he's now won 9 of the last 10. Makes me not only wonder if anyone cares about Clinton anymore, but WHY anyone cared about her in the first place.
     
  16. Revengeofthenerds

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    It's funny how Clinton and Sanders keep talking about free college or cheaper college or whatnot. Uhm... your bachelors right now is already pretty worthless. So what's they're suggesting is, let's flood the market even more and make your bachelors the equivalent of a high school diploma? Congratulations! You did what everyone else was supposed to do! I'd hate to compete for a job in that market.
     
  17. Nettdata

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    Personally, I'd love to see a smarter, better educated population. Let them compete... they already do as it is.

    Parts of Canada are already experimenting with the concept (parts of BC, Ontario, and Montreal).

    Really, though, more than anything, they have to shut off the student loan business. With the inability to discharge student loans in bankruptcy, lenders are lending way, way more than they really should be (along with credit cards), and the schools are cashing in by charging through the roof... because they can. I mean, if you could lend someone stupid amounts of money that it would take them a lifetime to pay back, and you were guaranteed that they could never get rid of that note, that's a hell of a business model for those that don't give a shit about people.
     
  18. audreymonroe

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    I'm not so sure about that. It's not like the typical "home state" advantage because people are hung up on her moving here just to be a senator for a more prominent state and don't really consider her a New Yorker. Sure, Bernie hasn't lived in New York in roughly 300 years but he feels more New York because he's a cranky old Jew who probably pronounces it "tomatuhs." I think this may be one of the places where people are most passionate about him, especially people out of college. I only know a couple hardcore Hillary supporters here. I've been starting to think that our primary may be the tipping point for Bernie. Although most people - like me - are pretty much in the middle between the two of them and can't get particularly riled up about either. I think they know that too, their campaigning here has been nuts. I'd really like to go to their debate on Thursday but, surprise surprise, it seems like it's going to be impossible to get into.
     
  19. Juice

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    Most political analysts are thinking the same thing as well. If Bernie wins NY, its going to be an enormous defeat for Hillary. New York women might keep the win on her side though, because shes a woman and Bernie likes rape fantasy.
     
  20. The Village Idiot

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    Not smart ones. I know the media loves to hype Bernie and his chances. The fact is he's way behind and he has to win 70% of the remaining delegates. That won't happen. His own campaign manager is pinning his hopes to the superdelegates. But here's the thing, superdelegates are very invested in the party. The reality is Bernie has done very little for the downticket candidates. Clinton has raised money, endorsed people, and towed the party line. Even in Wisconsin, Bernie wasn't wiling to endorse someone running, until Clinton did, then the next day he followed suit.

    Now, I know a lot of folks like Bernie, and I do too, but the reality is he can't articulate how he'll actually get some of the things he's promised done. The New York Post interview showed that. Further, while he may be a registered Democrat NOW, he wasn't before, and the superdelegates are very aware of that as well as his failure to support downticket candidates through endorsement or fund raising (his campaign manager said on Rachel Maddow that Bernie is signing letters for fundraising as he's done in the past). Superdelegates are loyal to the party second (themselves first) then to a candidate.

    Make no mistake, Bernie is viewed like Trump in that regard, he's an outsider and the party is going to always side with someone they know is going to play ball - for good or for bad.