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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Crown Royal

    Crown Royal
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    Just call me Topher

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    Sorry, I can't tell what size they are when I do this on my phone.

    Question: if police in America do what's in the video below, why would any criminal want to surrender to them?


     
  2. toytoy88

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    The dude was wanted for assault and battery with a deadly weapon and larceny. I guess to prove his innocence, he decided his best course of action when they attempted to pull him over, was to lead the cops on a 100+ mph chase through several towns, some of this chase with a flat tire, for over an hour, endangering not only the LEO's but also untold civilians because he's a dip shit.

    I'm not saying the cops were right, they weren't. But I can certainly understand being full of adreniline and rage after pursuing this cocksucker for an hour while he endangered my life, my co-workers, and untold others for no reason.

    You know how you don't get a beat down by police? Pull over and get arrested like would've happened if he hadn't taken off.

    He's not a victim. He's a criminal that decided to raise the stakes by endangering a whole bunch of innocent people to try and escape punishment.
     
  3. ODEN

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    It's immaterial what that guy did up to that moment; he was surrendering. The police officer's job is to protect and serve, not to carry out justice. Whether they or anyone else likes it or not, they cannot do this because they are no better than the people they are beating on if they do, which further erodes respect and belief in all law enforcement. What's worse is that every time there is an incident like this is that if the officer is not punished harshly for this behavior it will further erode trust and belief in law enforcement.

    It's a tough job and rough position to be in but as an LEO, if you beat on suspects like this you are nothing more than a criminal and should be treated as such.
     
  4. Nettdata

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    Mr. Toast

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    This.

    Never mind that it's never the cops that pay, it's the tax payer.

    Why did the guy run? Because as long as he survives, he just won the lottery.
     
  5. Crown Royal

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    I think that if they dipped into the police pension to pay for lawsuits against LEOs instead of our wallets you would see a drastic change in police violence.
     
  6. toytoy88

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    In theory and a perfect world, yes.

    The fact is the cops just spent an hour watching this dirtbag endanger their lives and countless others for no other reason then he didn't want to get caught. Yes, it would be nice if cops could turn off adrenaline and calmly walk up to the guy and cuff him. Maybe someday we'll have robot cops that can do that, right now we have humans. And humans can't just shut off adrenaline. So the guy got a beating. A well deserved beating as far as I'm concerned.

    He wasn't seriously injured, but as Nett said...he just won the lottery. That's what's wrong with the whole world now. ""I did all sorts of horrible shit. Endangered everyone around me and was a complete asshole who refused to get along with society. But the police got mad at me for being that way and acted out of line by treating me the way I treat the rest of the world. I'm a victim."
     
  7. toytoy88

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    Or maybe if these assholes quit breaking the law and get along in society like a normal human being we wouldn't have this problem and have to worry about who is paying for it?
     
  8. The Village Idiot

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    Porn Worthy, Bitches

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    So your solution is once the person potentially has broken the law, all bets are off?

    The police are given the public trust. They have to get it right 12 out of 12 times, not 11, not 10. We give them badges and guns with the understanding that the trust will not be abused. They are held to a higher standard for a reason.

    Oh, and by the way, being a cop isn't very dangerous. Statistically speaking, being a citizen of Boston is more dangerous. There are a lot of myths being perpetrated here. Having worked with cops, I can say with authority that many of them are as fucked up as the rest of us are.

    "But who will watch the watchers' indeed.
     
  9. toytoy88

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    Potentially broke the law? They just spent a highly stressful hour watching him break the law and endanger lives. So did countless people watching the news feed. No "Potentially broke the law" about it. They didn't just randomly stop a guy who did nothing wrong and immediately start beating him for no reason.

    Also, you must have missed the part where I said the cops weren't in the right, but that I could understand their anger and frustration. Yes, the guy did deserve a beating. No, they shouldn't have done it.

    And in a perfect world, they would. Funny thing about cops though...they're human. And like all humans they have emotions, which for the most part, cops do show an incredible amount of self restraint dealing with the lowest members of society. Keeping their emotions in check constantly is not healthy and is probably why cops have increased rates of alcoholism, divorce, and suicide.

    The media and the public in general seem to delight in tearing down anyone in a position of power or authority to fill some void in their life, and I can't understand it. Yes, these guys did fuck up....but to keep it in context...this was not some innocent civilian the cops targeted for shits and giggles, this was a known criminal endangering lives. Do the officers deserve to have their lives destroyed over some piece of shit?
     
  10. GTE

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    I disagree. That's why they are trained. No different than how our military is trained to not freak the fuck out in a combat situation.

    Back when I young and dumb, I got into some trouble and had to do work project (IE: pick up trash on the side of the road) and the cops were saying that if they have to chase a suspect, they *always* get a kick in once they catch them.
     
  11. toytoy88

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    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Lai_Massacre

    But still it happens. Because they are human.
     
  12. Nettdata

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    And yet My Lai is STILL being used as a training point in Canadian and US militaries. Does bad shit like My Lai happen? Yes... but it's not like it's an ongoing, systemic problem.

    The cops in the US have a fucked up headspace, in that their default mind set is one of "felony stop, get on the ground".

    Watch some cop "reality" shows from the US and from the UK, or Australia, or New Zealand, and you'll see that they have completely different approaches to interacting with people in general.

    US cops seem to dehumanize and condescend right from the start in order to assert some sort of control over the situation, and it just escalates from there. UK cops tend to be respectful and polite, and you can watch the situation de-escalating.

    US cops seem to be more like the high school bully that isn't that bright going on a power trip, and that has to change.

    Again, lots of generalizations here, mostly culled from the very high profile edge cases that make it to the news highlights, but I think you can understand my point.
     
  13. Misanthropic

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    I know a lot of cops, including one of my oldest friends. It isn't true in his case, but the desire for power over others is an all too common motivation for becoming a police officer.

    When one friend of mine graduated from the academy in the early '90s he invited a bunch of us down to celebrate with him and the rest of his graduating class. Most of these newly-minted officers were pretty nice folks, but not all of them. One guy in particular stood out. He had "crazy eyes", and at one point during the afternoon we were talking alone and he asked me if I had ever killed anyone. He then claimed to have killed 7 people during the first gulf war. From the way he talked it was clear that he was looking forward to the opportunity to rack up #8.

    Two years later he was kicked off the force for police brutality.
     
  14. Crown Royal

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    Police often question nowadays who there is such a simmering distrust for them in America, Trump calls them "the most mistreated group in America" because he's an idiot.

    The "comply or die" attitude has to end. Killing people and dropping the "I feared for my life" line has to end. And suspending officers with pay HAS TO END. There is nothing more stupid than a cop who breaks his oath and then gets to days/weeks/months sitting on his ass, getting paid in full, and the rest of us foot the bill.

    People are especially mad at police because they get rewarded for horrible behaviour instead of punished. The cop who hosed those protesters in California with pepper spray made almost half a million dollars for his cowardice. The blubbering bipolar fuck who killed Tamir Rice and let him lay there and bleed out got paid the entire time in full as he waited to find out that somehow nothing was his fault. The cop who strangled Eric Garner to death gets full pay and 24/7 guards outside his house and cries that he's a victim. The cops who beat Kelly Thomas to death while laughing and taunting as he screamed for his father got paid in full and given retirement and no punishment whatsoever.

    Stuff like that leaves a bad taste in people's mouths. As it should.
     
  15. CharlesJohnson

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    My cousin is a cop. He fits right into the mold of the meathead bully. He is dumb, like, dumb as shit. Racist SOB too. Which is funny because his kids are half Dominican, but the kids have been told they are "Spanish" from Spain. 30 years on 3 forces, never promoted, the only time he had his name in the paper was for harassing people and getting the crap beat out of him by a guy who managed to strap a stolen lawnmower on a bicycle. I can't make that shit up. I remember him with the blackeye and the arm sling chuckling how once the perpetrator was found the guy had a nice accident going to the jail.

    There are plenty of good cops. But we don't hear about it because they're doing their fucking job properly. A local cop getting a commendation is not national news, but a local cop sparking a race riot IS newsworthy. They're hired to do a specific, sometimes dangerous job. This is not the old west, this is not post-apocalyptic Judge Dredd bullshit. This is America 2016 and cops are not executioners, juries, or judges. You had to chase a guy down? Tough shit, that's the job. Guy took a swing at you? That's the job. Nobody is complaining you socked him in the chops to subdue him, people complain because you kicked him in the head when he was already handcuffed.

    Edit: Cops should be held to a higher standard specifically because they wield influence and power, but also because of the trust society places on them to be impartial and uphold the laws of our nation.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    Being suspended with pay is not an issue, and I support it, actually. Anyone can raise an issue that should be investigated, and I firmly believe in "innocent until proven guilty", so I think that it's a fair and reasonable course of action to suspend with pay.

    Then get a legit investigation done... not an internal sweeping under the rug, no bias of any kind. If cleared, then continue on.

    However, if a legit investigation finds them guilty, then they should not be as protected as they are. No special treatment, and if anything, they should be punished harsher than a normal person, especially if they took advantage of their position.

    To me, that's the egregious part... "he killed 4 unarmed people by shooting them in the back as they ran away, so therefore got 6 months suspension without pay".
     
  17. Crown Royal

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    That is as sound as it gets: police who break their oath, break the law they swore to uphold should be punished harder, not lighter than citizens.

    American police need to take a cue up here and stop investigating themselves for their own crimes. Here, when a cop is suspected of wrongdoing the "Police Watchdog"-- the Special Investigation Unit, take over. They are not Internal Affairs, they are not a branch of the police. That's something America desperately needs.
     
  18. toytoy88

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  19. Aetius

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    This was going to happen anyway, the $15 minimum wage just makes the economics of it justify quicker implementation and adoption.
     
  20. toytoy88

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    As a child I had nightmares of this horrific clown becoming self aware. The future is truly frightening.

    (Yes, this is an original Jack in the Box drive thru from the late 60's)

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