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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. dixiebandit69

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    I know I'm a day late to respond to Nett's post, but here it is:

    This ties in with the war on drugs nicely: FUCKING BOGUS DRUG TESTS.



    In a traffic stop, cops can do pretty much whatever they want. Yeah, there are laws on the books that regulate their behavior, but they have a lot of ways of getting around those restrictions, and even if they blatantly abuse your rights, it's up to you/your lawyer to prove that they did. And the courts are always going to side with the cops.

    If a cop asks to search your car during a traffic stop, you have the right to say no, but try it some time and see how far it gets you.
    I've got a couple of funny stories about police searches (and by "funny," I mean "rage inducing."):
    1) In '07, I borrowed my dad's car to go upstate for a car sale. I was on my way back, and I got caught in a speed trap. I WAS speeding; I'm not complaining about that.
    The officer (city cop) told me that he was a "drug detection specialist" or some such glorified title, and he asked if a K9 could sniff around the vehicle. I said "yes," since I had nothing to hide.
    Well, cop said that the dog detected the odor of marijuana coming from the vehicle, and that gave him probable cause to search it.
    This was weird, because the only people to drive that car were me and my dad, and neither of us smoke pot.
    I had to stand back as the dog tracked dirt all over the inside of the car, and then the officer went in and tore everything apart, even taking out the back seat, the spare tire, and the trunk lining.
    In the end, he found nothing. When I asked him where the marijuana was, he just gave me this bullshit answer:
    "Well, maybe someone smoked marijuana in the vehicle at some point."
    NO ONE was smoking marijuana in that car.
    Here's my theory: Those police dogs are trained to do whatever the cops tell them to. The cop saw a young guy (I was 25 at the time), and thought "this guy probably smokes weed, maybe I can bust him with something!" (Wrong drug, shitheel)
    So he signals the dog to say it smelled weed. If he finds something, great. If he doesn't , no biggie. He still gets paid.

    2) About 6 years ago, I was driving down a dirt road, and two sheriff's deputies pulled out of nowhere, blocking the road. They got out and asked me if I had any drugs or weapons in the car (which I didn't), and asked if they could search the vehicle. Since I had nothing (once again, I had borrowed my dad's car when this happened), I refused the search, as is my right.
    When I refused, they got very irate and accusatory, saying that if I had nothing to hide, I shouldn't have a problem with the search.
    I still refused.
    Then one officer pointed out that my license was suspended, and that driving with a suspended license was an arrestable offense; once I was under arrest, they could legally search the car.
    I pointed out that I was driving on a private dirt road, and didn't need a license to operate a motor vehicle.
    The officer replied "How did you get on this dirt road? You had to have driven on a public road to get here. I can arrest you for driving with a suspended license right now."
    To which I replied: "Well if you're going to arrest me just to search the car, then go ahead and search it."

    That REALLY pissed him off. He got up in my face and yelled: "Oh, so now you wanna play games with me?! You're gonna say that I said you had to let me search the car or else you're gonna be arrested?!"

    Me: "Well, isn't that what you're saying?"

    Then he told me to turn around and put my hands behind my back, because I was under arrest. On the way to the county jail, he flat-out told me that if I'd just let him and his partner search the car, that they'd have let me go (because I had nothing on me). I sat in county for 24 hours, and they never even charged me with driving without a license.
    My dad had a tough time getting his car out of the county impound lot; there was no fine, but he had to bring the title before they would turn it over.

    The next day, I found out that there had been a murder in the area a few hours earlier, but that doesn't excuse the cops' actions.
     
  2. Kampf Trinker

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    Black men are shot by cops disproportionately more than other races. They also commit violent crimes disproportionately more than other races. Is that only tangentially related? And what percentage of cop shootings are the sole fault of the officer? What percentage are the sole fault of the suspect? I can't definitively answer that, but given what I've seen I think one of these happens much more frequently than the other. That does NOT make the abundance of police shootings ok.

    You're right about Republicans just wanting to blame every problem black people face on community/culture problems. Yeah, they totally do that. Still, consider this article, which is a mirror of hundreds written in the last two years.

    Trying to survive. Afraid for his children. Scared to be killed by cops. Scared to be judged by white people. Only the white people and the cops.

    Then the author of the article added this: A blip on the story, and it's not a quote from the people she's interviewing, but at least she did add it.

    Gang violence kills black men every day. Far more than the cops or white people. It's not even close. Same would go for suicide, car accidents, and drug overdose. So when a black person says they're struggling to survive and then, without even a hint of subtlety hauls the entire blame for that sentiment on the cops, white people, and our racist society; how am I supposed to respect that position? Why should I just say "Well, we aren't talking about gang violence and drug overdose right now."?

    I think this deserves reposting. Quote from a black officer who grew up in Brooklyn: https://www.facebook.com/jay.stalien/posts/911372818974402

    I can't say that he's wrong. Can you?

    No, I don't think every time a police shooting or a racist incident happens someone needs to chime in about gangs or children born out of wedlock. But when you've only talked about this for two years, rioted and looted several cities, chanted hate speech at your rallies, and you've only been willing to talk about the people who are now being murdered because of your movement... fuck dude, are you going to tell me I don't support BLM because I'm too white to get it?
     
  3. ODEN

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    http://prisontime.org/2013/08/12/timeline-black-support-for-the-war-on-drugs/

    I really don't think it's fair for either side to try to point at the other; that goes for whites pointing at blacks or liberals pointing at conservatives, when discussing the war on drugs, black on black crime or the current state of policing. The reality is that 30 or 40 years ago the drug and violent crime issue was worse. People from every group, a consensus, came out in support of doing something; that something happened to be harsher penalties and more aggressive policing for drugs and violent crime. Again, I am not trying to assign blame to one group or the other but framing this discussion as America's racist policies and America's racist policing is really disingenuous.

    I will be the first person to agree that it may be time to dial it back some. Violent crime is down, we haven't even put a dent in the illicit drug trade and we have an entire generation of young people who are incarcerated; the highest levels of incarceration in the world for that matter. Will building a wall help? Will patrolling the streets in MRAPs with big ugly black guns that scare liberals help? Will continued wiretapping help? Will harsher mandatory drug sentencing help? I think the answer to these questions is no. I think we need to start working toward rebuilding communities and counseling drug users for a while. Maybe even end a war or two and close a few forward operating bases so we rebuild our country for a change. Or we can keep doing the same things and hope for different results.
     
    #4743 ODEN, Jul 19, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2016
  4. Kampf Trinker

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    It's just in American culture to think we can bludgeon problems away. No matter how many times it fails, or makes things worse people are convinced a short term solution is possible with a good aggressive strategy. Then when it falls short, it's because it wasn't pushed hard enough, or civility hampered the would be heroes from doing their job. If a long term solution gets attempted, one side tries to make sure it doesn't succeed because they don't want to take the risk of being wrong. 8 months later, with no profound results to show yet, the original backers halfheartedly succumb to media pressure and we try something else before it even had a chance. If you want to fix something recognize it's not going to be solved by a couple new laws and a vault of money. And for fuck's sake, there's so much data to look at, in our country and elsewhere. Stop theory crafting, or trying to spin it to make it mean you want it to mean and look at it objectively.
     
  5. The Village Idiot

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    While you and I have had many disagreements, I think the above is the best thing you've ever written in this thread.

    I think it outlines what our thinking is, and after watching last night's RNC I'm embarrassed that I was a Republican (and recently I've made no bones about my conservative leanings, I don't know if this is a good thing or not, but there it is).

    To follow up on your point, we keep doubling, tripling, and quintupling down on bad ideas. As you correctly point out, we have so much history and experience to draw from. For instance, let's take immigration (which Jeff Sessions went off on last night) - but he pointed out something that everyone seems to have missed:

    The vast majority of 'illegal immigrants' in this country are here as a result of overstaying their visa. So what's a wall going to do, other than play goalie and keep them in? Obama has deported more illegals than any other President in history. But let's double down.

    Ok, so let's cut taxes. Of course, you realize that all of the gains made in the GDP in the last 8 years have accrued to the wealthiest 1%. But let's triple down. Eventually it will work.

    We're a country of obese people listening to the quack saying we could lose weight if we ate only ice cream. As our weight rises, we hear 'you're not eating enough ice cream.'

    I seriously weep for the state of this country. I may well join my Canadian brethren. While they have problems, they seem to approach things in a much more civil and enlightened fashion than 'Team America.'

    If we want to be the Greatest Country (tm) then maybe it's high time we earned that nomenclature.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    Miami police shoot an unarmed therapist trying to help an autistic man. Lying on the ground, hands in the air, they shoot him on camera. When he asks the cop why he did it? "I don't know." That seems like the perfect answer. He did it because he could.

    http://www.vox.com/2016/7/21/12244938/north-miami-police-shooting-charles-kinsey-video

    This is the same North Miami police department who was caught red-handed using the faces of black guys as shooting targets a year ago.
     
    #4746 Crown Royal, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  7. Revengeofthenerds

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    This kinda hits home. I work with children with special abilities. Some are autistic such as the man in the video. The caretaker's first priority was the autistic man. People who do this for a living, we're just geared a certain way. Without going into too much detail, a few years ago I was protecting child basically from himself and ended up in the hospital. Still have side-effects from the accident to this day. Don't blame him at all, it just is what it is. But in no way would it ever occur to me that getting shot by a police officer would be a risk I would have to take. I mean I would do it in a heart beat if it meant protecting one of my students don't get me wrong, but that just seems so far out there. And now this story is making it seem like a possibility.

    I'll expand on this more but I'm about to head off to work.

    Let's hope I don't get shot!
     
  8. Rush-O-Matic

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    Every rational conversation anyone would try to have to argue with BLM supporters, was just set back 100 years with that video. WTF. Since the video isn't complete, I don't know if he really did have his hands still in the air when he was shot, or if the officer thought he was "reaching for a gun." But, if he really shot him while his hands were still like that, that officer should be immediately fired, of course, and never work in law enforcement again. And, as many charges they can figure out, they should lock him up. Thank goodness he has terrible aim. He must've gotten the report and added a space in his head. So, it was The Rapist instead of therapist, and he was with an "artistic" man.

    Isn't it odd, though, that the video cuts off for the actual shooting, and then picks back up when he's being handcuffed? Here's the one without the news commentary, and at 1:10 it cuts off and then jumps ahead.

    The information included indicates that someone sent the news station two videos and they edited them together.
    ETA: The "someone" that provided the video is the attorney for the man who was shot, Mr. Kinsey. And, Mr. Kinsey is currently in settlement talks with the City.
     
    #4748 Rush-O-Matic, Jul 21, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2016
  9. toddamus

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    Looks like the RNC got a little steamy last night

    upload_2016-7-21_8-19-46.png

    I hope the Republicans can regroup and reestablish themselves. I think their social platforms specifically on gay rights and womens health are antiquated and have lead them to what happened above.

    Anyone have any thoughts on the RNC so far? I think what I've seen is certain politicians distancing themselves from Trump, specifically those who are up for re-election this next cycle. Its looking like no one wants to be known as someone who supported Trump.
     
  10. Juice

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    From a unbiased perspective, so far it was about as expected. Ted Cruz's speech was bizarre and likely put the nail in the coffin of any future political aspirations for himself. Stephen Colbert's crashing was a bit childish I think. Laura Ingraham probably gave the best speech so far. Overall, I think Trump will probably win the presidency unless Hillary really crushes him at the debates, which there is a good possibility of.

    I do think it was funny that the KKK, Black Lives Matter, and Westboro Baptist Church protestors threw urine on each other.
     
  11. JWags

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    Its been mixed, but if nothing else its been entertaining. Trump is a master showman, his entrances each night have been amazing. Glad to see Cruz continuing to act like a petulant child. I know he's trying to set himself up as the "true conservative" in the potential aftermath of Trump, but he's coming off as a disingenuous scumbag to even his own party, people were ready to riot after his stunt last night.

    Say what you want about Trump, his kids are intelligent, composed, and well spoken...well except for his weirdo Marla Maples-spawn daughter who came up talking like Elizabeth Taylor. You can cut up his talking points, but in terms of delivery and intended message, Donald Trump Jr gave a hell of a speech and has people clamoring for him to run for office.
     
  12. toddamus

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    I imagine Cruz has unpublicized psychiatric disorders. He is so histrionic, and what happened last night smacks of narcissistic personality disorder, love me or I'll hurt you kind of thing.

    Why do you think Trump beats Hilarly in the election?

    Its great to know BLM, Westboro and the KKK were all pissing on each other. Let the bottom feeders hash it out.
     
  13. Juice

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    Agreed on Cruz. What a poor sport. He advertised his brand of Evangelicalism and the party went with the populist and he cant handle it.

    I think he beats Clinton because of the Democratic party's low expectations, which will be their undoing this cycle if they arent careful. Aside from Bernie Sanders who put up a far more serious fight than anyone had anticipated, Hillary was completely unopposed which was a huge mistake. Everyone, especially her, acted like her nomination was a foregone conclusion. Trump was a punchline at the beginning of the primary cycle, now hes the nominee thats tied and in some cases, beating her at the polls. Casting aside all of the bombastic and outlandish noise that Trump puts out, I think hes being largely underestimated and the Democrats should be taking it far more seriously. Shes not the shoe-in that everyone thought she was going to be. If the party keeps acting like shes just the presumed winner, then a lot more people wont bother voting and Trump will slide in. Hes already beating her slightly in the swing states, if he can turn around a state like New York, which is tough but not impossible, its over.
     
  14. Dcc001

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    I agree that Clinton is in real danger of losing this, mostly due to voter turnout. The people that like Trump are zealous in their approval of him. They're the people who will drive through a snowstorm and book the day off work to vote. His supporters will absolutely show up to the polls.

    No one that I've heard so far really likes Clinton. They support her because she's the Democratic nominee, or because she's not Trump. They have a kind of resigned, lesser-of-two-evils approval. Those are the people who will not make any great effort to vote. The ones who don't want to see Trump run things but who aren't satisfied there's an appropriate alternative will just check out and not show up.

    She's got to make sure her base gets all the asses into booths that they can.
     
  15. toddamus

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    Good points, apathy is her biggest enemy and I do think that she is underestimating Trump.

    These unfortunate police shootings, there's political capital to be had there. It seems like Trumps campaign is trying to work that. Is Hilarly doing enough to say that she will change things if she becomes president or is she just kind of assuming that people will give her the benefit of a doubt that she'll protect the country better than Trump?
     
  16. zzr

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    Remember that whenever Trump is within a few points of Clinton in the polls, he's actually ahead. Many people are ashamed to say that they support him, so the numbers are skewed lower. Clinton doesn't have that problem because she is the expected candidate. Clinton's crucial mistake may turn out to be believing the polls.
     
  17. audreymonroe

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    Why does this matter in a president? When I listen to people who like Trump himself for not explicitly racist, xenophobic, or uneducated reasons, it mostly seems to boil down to them getting a kick out of his personality. Facts don't matter, what he believes in and stands for doesn't matter, how often he changes his mind in what he believes in or stands for doesn't matter, that he barely wants to be or understands what it takes to be president besides the title and fame and is going to be basically passing off all governing power to Mike Pence and people he hasn't announced yet doesn't seem to matter, that he's lacking knowledge in everything from the most basic to the most complicated ideas one has to know and grapple with while president doesn't seem to matter, that he's shit on not only a ton of groups of people that it isn't terribly surprising a Republican candidate would shit on but also veterans and is somehow the only politician in the history of this country where that doesn't seem to matter doesn't matter. They just, like, think he's a cool dude and that's the only thing that matters. Why is that such an important factor?
     
  18. zzr

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    But you can say that about just about any candidate on any side. We never really know these people. We only know what their campaign presents through the media, what they say when the cameras are on.

    Be honest - Mr. Obama had almost zero qualifications for being president besides being able to read a great speech. How is that any different from Trump? The country really didn't go to hell as all the Republicans predicted, and no matter who wins this year it won't happen now either. Again, this all goes back to your particular political bent. Almost everyone picks a candidate then goes on to state why the other candidate is unqualified while ignoring their own candidate's shortcomings. It's never a rational choice, on either side, though we all tell ourselves how great our candidate is and wonder how in the world anyone could support the other guy. Imagine if we had the candidates fill out a long survey with questions about their beliefs and intentions, then voters had to do the same thing, and the ones who matched the closest got the vote. Neither of these candidates would even be the nominee this year. In our current system, it all boils down to whoever has the best sales and marketing.
     
  19. JWags

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    I never said it mattered. Someone asked impressions of the RNC and i gave an impression. I'm not voting for him, but if you can't watch him come out of a smoke filled silohutte backdrop to We Are the Champions just to introduce his wife, and be amused on a pure ridiculous spectacle, then idk. That shouldn't make people vote for him, but politics is an absurd dog and pony show as it is.
     
  20. E. Tuffmen

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    Agree with this or not, but there is a very large silent majority of people who are sick to death of political correctness. They are sick of being told that basically, America sucks completely and utterly. They are sick of Obama circling the globe and apologizing. They are sick of how he has treated our allies. They are sick of a president who hasn’t really done anything other than make us weaker in practically every way and exacerbated race relations, which are at their lowest point in a very long time. They are sick of KNOWING that Radical Islamic Terrorism is a real threat. That’s not xenophobic that’s just common goddamn sense. They are sick of the media lying to them about everything and the incredible bias that is being shown. Look at how they have latched on to the whole “plagiarism” thing, while almost completely ignoring the very real problems with Hillary obviously OBVIOUSLY lying about pretty much everything and her complete lack of accountability. The fact that the Democratic party pushed so hard for her shows just how far their collective heads are up their collective asses. She would be a terrible candidate against anyone, but she will be the FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT so it’s all good. At the very least people believe that Trump actually, you know, likes his country and people are hungry for that. It’s mob mentality and the people want Rome to be great again. Just look at his slogan – Let’s Make America Great Again!

    This is a great video that really explains very well why he’s doing so well, and how he crushed everyone else in the primaries. It's a little long but very worth the watch.