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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Dcc001

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    Personally, I think the first thing that should be in the gunsights (no pun) is the mental health services in North America. Specifically how they don't really exist in a meaningful way.

    Many of the "lone wolf" shooters were known to have issues within their families, but there were/are no programs for people who are unstable but not yet overtly violent and self harming.

    - The Washington shooter had a history of assaults against his family and is described as so creepy and odd his neighbors actively avoided him and one kept a taser by the door.
    - Adam Lanza, of the Sandy Hook massacre, was deeply troubled and eventually removed from school by his mother.
    - The parents of the kid who stabbed five people to death in Calgary knew he was suffering a psychotic break as it was happening and were frantically driving all over trying to find him.
    - The man who shot up the movie theatre at the Batman screening had been schizophrenic for some time prior.

    And on and on. All these people needed a better system, but there aren't any ways to effectively get help unless you're wealthy, or actively suicidal, or so mentally incapacitated even the hospital can't help.

    Another reason we need better services is because it's not fair to ask the police to be the principal custodians of the mentally ill. A big chunk of the homeless and drug addicted are actually mentally ill people, coping the best they can with limited resources. Cops aren't doctors, and constantly having the police as the front - sometimes only - line is asking for disaster.

    * Point of order: Harris and Klybold were not responding to bullies, or at least there is significant doubt as to the pair's motivation. Harris was actually charming and could at times be a bully himself. Klybold was weak and the two of them fell into a twisted relationship that saw Harris masterminding a psychotic plan and Klybold following his lead. There's been quite a few books written on it, most recently by Klybold's mother. They were a rare case that showed no warning prior to their violence.
     
    #5421 Dcc001, Sep 25, 2016
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2016
  2. Nettdata

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    Totally agree.

    I also think that we have to hold those that know them a bit more responsible. If they know that someone is fucked up, and has firearms, then they should really be expected to report that to local authorities.

    And if we know where they acquired the firearms, then that person has to be nailed to the wall. No excuse... there are responsibilities that come with owning firearms, and if you fail in those, you better have a really, really good reason, or else I consider you to be the driver at an armed robery; equally as guilty.
     
  3. Dcc001

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    Would that work in the States, though? I know that convicted felons can't own guns, but is there a framework if someone has a clean record but a mental illness to deny selling them a weapon?

    Also, how crazy that the Stampeders had a player shot and killed at a bar in Calgary yesterday. I can't think of too many shooting deaths that happen in Canada outside of domestic violence or gangs.
     
  4. Revengeofthenerds

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    I know it's a matter of semantics, but "can't" vs. "legally are not allowed to." The dude in Charlotte spent 7 years behind bars, within driving distance of me, for assault with a deadly weapon. But that didn't stop him from having a handgun on him when the cops shot up. If you want a gun, you can get a gun, convicted felon or not. It prevents you from getting a gun through legal means, but generally speaking if you're the kinda person who's gonna commit a felony, you're not too concerned with "legal means." Kinda like how the only people who care about gun free zones are the people inclined to follow the law anyway.

    And to answer the second part of your question, no, there isn't a framework to deny someone a weapon based upon mental illness. Privacy concerns (HIPPA laws). And this is an area where I feel I can personally speak on, given I've worked my way into and out of the US's joke of a mental healthcare system with my own issues. Over about a five year period -- which thank god I'm out of -- I've great doctors, and I have had ones who absolutely should not have been practicing. All of them knew I was a gun enthusiast, or as we call it in the US, a "Texan." Some of my best doctors believed that all of the guns should be removed from my house, and some of my best doctors thought that target shooting was a good form of therapy for me. Some of my worst doctors thought that I should take even the sharp knives out of my house, and some of my worst doctors spent at least a portion of every appointment talking about AR-15 mods and shotguns with me.... point is, there's so much variance in opinions of mental health professionals (or anyone for that matter), that you can easily find someone who'd say that you shouldn't ever own a firearm, just as quickly as you can find someone to disagree with that person's diagnosis and recommendation on your mental competency.

    That being said, I think, in regard to mental health and firearms, it's better to err on the side of caution and not allow mental health assessments to be prohibitive to someone owning a firearm. There is too much margin for error in physician assessments, it's too easy to acquire a firearm illegally in the event you are prohibited from legally purchasing (and now you're armed and very angry), and it would violate some personal privacy rights which I am very much a fan of keeping private.
     
  5. toytoy88

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    Charlotte's fixing to go off again. The protesters are marching through white areas hollering and screaming to wake up people, literally yelling "Wake up, y'all don't need to go to work" "We on your lawns now"

    Live stream:

     
  6. xrayvision

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    That ought to garner sympathy. And not gun fire.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    God damn.... someone's going to get shot before the night is over.
     
  8. toytoy88

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    I think we can safely assume that whole neighborhood just became Trump voters.
     
  9. Revengeofthenerds

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    This is video provides a great argument for the continued sale of semi-automatic rifles.

    Shouting "wake up!!!" through a megaphone is not protesting. It's grounds for an ass kicking. If I lived in those neighborhoods I'd be lobbing molotov cocktails from behind bushes and buildings at the group.

    Why the fuck are the cops not arresting these people? They're invading the privacy of others in a residential area.
     
  10. audreymonroe

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    Funny, I always thought the most toxic parts of race relations in this country were attitudes like this one.
     
  11. toytoy88

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  12. Kubla Kahn

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    Man this debate could be epic beyond imagination or fucking lame.
    I'd really like to hear what each is being coached up on, beyond policy or politics. Head games? Tampering reflex reactions?
     
  13. Revengeofthenerds

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    I'm trying not to get my expectations up. Figure if I set the bar really low, then I'll be happy no matter what. But it has all the makings of a really good show. Wish they would have let Johnson on stage, but if they did that then it would have been an actual policy debate instead of made for TV drama and no one wants to see that.
     
  14. toytoy88

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    This story keeps getting weirder. It was apparently a disgruntled attorney that decided to open fire at random people at 6 AM while wearing a Nazi uniform.

    "Law enforcement sources said that the shooter was wearing what appeared to be an antique German uniform with Swastikas on it."

    http://www.click2houston.com/news/large-police-presence-reported-in-southwest-houston
     
  15. xrayvision

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    My money is on Trump toning down the douchebaggery for tonight. They aren't being judged on the same scale. All he has to do is barely appear presidential and he's basically won the debate. She has to undo an entire career of being a panderbear. It's not fair that they are being judged differently but it's what people are doing.
     
  16. Juice

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    I recommend this after watching the debate yourself if you haven't decided: Turn off the TV, stay off the Internet, etc. for the night. Think about what you just watched, who did a better job, and what ideas spoke to you more for yourself without letting others influence you.
     
  17. toytoy88

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    This has to be embarrassing:

    1474932975451.jpg
     
  18. walt

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    What, and miss hours of both camps claiming victory ?

    What's bothersome to me is there's many who find this all to be great entertainment. Like our countries' future is some kinda joke.
     
  19. Kubla Kahn

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    Its going just as bombastically as we all could have hoped for.
     
  20. Misanthropic

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    I tried. I really tried. My daughters homework assignment was to watch the debate, and my wife coerced me into joining them and Holy Fuck they are both so full of shit.

    This is where I'm playing the age card. If you've been paying attention for the past 30 years you know that neither of them has any clue as to how we got to where we are, or - they're flying their heads off.

    I can't fucking watch these two assholes twist the truth and make shit up anymore. Have fun, suckers