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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. toddamus

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    Maybe its time to seriously consider Johnson? We can have more than two choices and who knows, maybe prominent behind the scenes Republicans will start supporting him and moving him forward/
     
  2. Gravy

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    I remember a pretty good chunk of the electorate caring about those things. It just so happened they were mostly Republican. The party of family values and whatnot.

    What has changed is a piece of audio wherein he advocates sexually assaulting women. But it's becoming clear that the GOP right now has run into the conundrum of party vs. country. Because while it is certainly good (short term) for the party to vote for him, it can't be good for the country. A vote for Trump is telling women everywhere that the proper response to a man essentially saying that I have so much power I can just grab women by the genitals is to make him the most powerful man in the world. Good call.

    How can anyone endorse him after hearing that? How can Republican leaders say this is indefensible and terrible and in the next breath say let's make him President?

    Trump isn't just an idiot. He's someone comfortable with sexually assaulting women. You think it's okay for him to say something heinous just because that's the way he feels. Just because he is honest doesn't make him good. But then again, he isn't being honest. How many times has he said that he respects women?
     
  3. D26

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    [​IMG]
     
  4. Rush-O-Matic

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    I wrote electorate, but meant those who voted (or will vote) for the candidate. Bill Clinton supporters don't seem to care about him raping Juanita Broaddrick or Eileen Wellstone, or sexual assault against Paula Jones or Kathleen Willey. I think both they're both despicable, and wasn't saying make either one of them president.

    I am assuming because they feel the alternative is worse? I can't remember which TiB member wrote this, so I won't try and give credit, but it came up during the Hillary Clinton email discussion. The gist of it was "I know Hillary is a liar and hid information, but I've made peace with that and thinks she's a better choice." Or something like that. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are both terrible choices to be President of the United States, and from most of what I've seen they're both terrible people. However, one of them is going to be president. So, most voters are operating under the assumption that not voting for one is essentially a vote for the other one.
     
  5. Kubla Kahn

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  6. Kampf Trinker

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    Fuck it, I'm voting for Trump. I've seen Gary Johnson and he gets embarrassed every time he speaks with someone who isn't a libertarian. I don't know what is so cathartic about the hypocrisy of speculating Trump's piggish remarks to any crime you want while Hillary Clinton is married to this shit. You can either live with it or you can't. I'm sure most of you find the defending Trump ridiculous, but I don't know what the left's campaign is even about at this point. Is it say no to racism and sexism in 2016? What is this supposed to do for America? If this was the left's line they wouldn't celebrate Bill Clinton. All I hear from the left is that Trump is out to get black people, or women, or whoever and I'm not buying it.

    The biggest problem in this country is the corruption in politics. Hillary called the TPP the gold standard and then when Bernie called her on it she claimed she didn't know what it was about and changed her mind. People believed her. Why? What do you think she is going to do when she gets in office? I've been watching her for 20 years, stop telling me this stuff never happened. Year after year China is experiencing double digit growth while we are bumping in and out of recessions. They are fucking us in the ass. Hard. They're slowly building up their industry and when they no longer need our brain capital we're going to be a country that is over-invested in the service sector and doesn't produce anything. This isn't the industrial juggernaut that won WW2 and day after day we're becoming the country of Wal-mart.

    Trump's an asshole, Hillary is a useless asshole. I think he's going to make a real effort to tackle these issues. Maybe I'm wrong, but I look at Clinton and there isn't a lot to lose. Buy all the fear mongering you want. If people are willing to soak up a narrative about how a multi-billionaire never made any money I guess they'll take anything.
     
  7. Gravy

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    You're drunk aren't you? It takes a rare breed to look at the past week of Trump and say, "Yup. I'm voting for this guy." I'm pretty sure you're just trolling here.

    That's because you don't want to pay attention. You could start here. Truthfully, Trump has made it so that the Left doesn't have to make a good case for their party. To reasonable people, "We're not Trump" is a pretty damn good message to get out there.

    Well, we know what fear mongering you have bought into. What is Trump's plan to fight China anyway? And why would it work? Also, can you trust the guy who complains about China, but doesn't stop his business with them? He is obviously ready to make America great again...unless it hurts his bottom line.

    He's made money. How has he made that money? I mean he did bankrupt casinos and with the phrase "the house always wins" that seems hard to do. You speak of corruption in politics, but you have a guy who won't release his tax returns or promise to put his business in a blind trust once he goes into office. C'mon now.

    You think he is going to make a real effort to change these things when he offered to let Kasich be his V.P. and handle...well, everything? He isn't interested in doing shit. He is all bluster. There isn't one single coherent idea or issue in his campaign. He is nothing but posturing, racist dogwhistles, and misogyny.

    It's weird that black people, women, and whoever are buying it. You'd think they would be a pretty good barometer of that.

    Out to get black people? Lawsuits settled about civil rights violations, racist birther bullshit, stop and frisk, doubling down on the guilt of the Central Park 5 despite dna evidence (that's definitely someone you want handling the Department of Justice).

    Out to get women? Pence as VP (the guy who wanted to make women have funerals for their fetuses of they miscarried), punish those who receive abortions, grab them by the pussy.
     
    #5647 Gravy, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  8. Juice

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    Just an FYI for this thread now that we're in the homestretch of the election season- people can support any candidate they want. We don't have to support them or agree with it, but we will be respectful about it.
     
  9. Gravy

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    It's kind of funny that Donald Trump's level of decorum would bar him from participating in this thread.
     
  10. Kampf Trinker

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    You missed my point by a mile. Hillary is saying what her campaign strategists tell her people want to hear. Nothing more, nothing less. It's so painfully obvious my head is about to explode. I've heard her platforms before and seen her in action.

    Yeah, he wants to label them a currency manipulator, which they are. He's talked about tariffs, trade deals that charge importers commensurate tax rates. These are good ideas. Have you ever met anyone in business or seen a portfolio before? Having money in China isn't actually very relevant. So did Romney and Obama. It didn't make their debates meaningless.

    Dude, I'm not going on with the rest of your post. You are what annoys me about the left in a nut shell. Go be a social hero. This whole thread you've been calling people racist and sitting on a high horse. Tomorrow, just like today a million pigs will stand up and babble nonsensically about how they respect women. That's great if you do, I just don't care. I don't have that warm fuzzy ball in my heart. I suppose we need feminism so we can have advocates for things like maternity leave and abortion rights, but I don't give a shit about all their social theories on objectification, video games, movies, or any of that crap. Feminists would be the worst artists ever. They even hate Joss Whedon now.

    That's my gripe with the left. Some of this stuff is good, but they're just firing everywhere without a clue. Look at BLM.

    And I'm so sick of the childish personal attacks. How can you call Trump immature when so much of the left wing media is blathering about people on soap boxes and hurling vicious indictments at people that haven't really done anything wrong? Until they grow up, fuck 'em.
     
    #5650 Kampf Trinker, Oct 9, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2016
  11. Gravy

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    They all seem pretty consistent with what she has said all along? But if you don't like political opportunism, how do you square Trump switching parties?

    Couldn't starting an outright trade war with China also have huge consequences for the American consumer and economy? Most economists seem to agree that those policies would be pretty bad for us on the whole.

    And I was actually meaning to refer to the fact that he has products made in China and buys Chinese steel for his buildings. If he loves the American worker so much, why not give those jobs to them?

    Have I talked about "social theories on objectification, video games, movies, or any of that crap?" No. I have talked about abortion. I haven't brought up maternity leave (though we know Trump isn't really a big fan of that). It's weird to recognize those are good things and vote for someone opposed to them. I mean if you think abortion rights are a good thing and you vote for Trump then you just aren't making a whole lot of sense.

    You're purposely trying to morph what's been said here into far more radical ideas to justify both your dislike for me and your vote for Trump. I mean at this point it really just seems like you're pissed off at liberals and want to stick it to them/us/whatever because you don't like when things are called sexist or racist. That does jive with you suddenly finding the gumption to go Trump given the recent release of audio.

    I can call Trump immature because he does things like retweet childish insults of the opposing candidates VP during the VP debate, resorts to talking about the size of his dick, etc. etc. etc. As for your bit about the left wing media...I just don't know what you're saying here.
     
  12. Kampf Trinker

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    I repeat, grow the fuck up. I said why I'm voting for Trump. Those are my reasons. I don't mind calling out racism, but I find it distasteful at places like Mizzou where they're not only slandering people unnecessarily, they're trying to get them fired too. I doubt that Trump cares about the abortion issue all that much. He's flipped on it, but took it out of political convenience. I'd rather have him than a fanatic like Ted Cruz and I don't ever expect to have a candidate who I agree with on every issue. I understand that game and the need to play it, but Hillary is the game entirely. I'm talking about how she's voted, how she's taken money to change her mind, how she's voted in the exact opposite of the platforms she has run on. I've listed how many examples throughout this thread? 30? 40? You're still denying it?

    He's not starting a trade war. That's hyperbole, he's talking about renegotiating trade deals while we bring jobs back home.

    Most economists do not agree that we are benefiting from the trade deals with China in the long run. All of that stuff got exposed in the 2007 financial crisis and even Greenspan had to come out and admit there was flaws in his reasoning. That's how Trump and Bernie can be total opposites of the spectrum and take similar positions. Through my friends from high school, and one of my stupidly rich family members I've met some of the people who run in those circles and they're all saying the same things Trump did. Even the ones that are part of the problem.

    We can't be a country that keeps turning to the service sector for job growth. We can't be a nation of people who sell goods, but don't produce. We need to be both, and the pendulum is starting to swing widely in the wrong direction. We also need to stop turning a blind eye when corporations buy politicians on both sides of the aisle. Often, giving money to both parties and then hearing it's bipartisanship when they pass laws that aren't in the interest of middle class Americans.

    The establishment has been preaching about middle class growth for a long time, but doesn't seem to want to do anything about it.

    Edit: Oh, and Hillary has been flipping on the trade deals too. She's even spoken skeptically about NAFTA. Don't give that what most economists think crap. I'm just saying I believe Trump more than her, even though he is most certainly a raging dickhead.
     
  13. Gravy

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    Ahhh, yes, you're really making it sound like I'm the one who needs to grow up.

    The idea of voting for Trump because he is the more honest candidate is absolutely absurd, but I guess this is all it comes down to. Good talk.

    VAST LIBERAL CONSPIRACY! Or just another batch of absolutely humdrum emails that reveal absolutely nothing shocking.
     
  14. toddamus

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    I think most people's arguments can be summed up like this.
    Trump: Horrible, devious. amoral bastard
    Clinton: Horrible, devious, conniving, party establishment whore.

    I think at this point in the election, how these people are described has been well hashed out.
     
  15. Kampf Trinker

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    Well, if we're going for all caps, DID YOU READ IT? She took money to speak there and she's assuaging their concerns. She's talking about people selling their vote in a movie, and then pretending the concept is a good thing. Wink wink. She's quoting stuff from her own campaign and telling them she isn't actually going to do it. She latched on Bernie's stance against wall street because she saw it was popular, but never had any intention of enacting it.

    This is Orwellian double think, plain and simple. Hillary supporters have argued that no, Hillary is not a sell out, she's going to stand up to wall street and the banking system. She's like Bernie, just more reasonable. Not so far left on the free stuff. Now, Hillary supporters are reading that and they think it's further proof she's going to represent their best interests.

    Hillary knows what's best for you. She just isn't going to be irresponsible and let the mob rule. Drink it up brother.
     
  16. Revengeofthenerds

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    See that's why I actually am starting to like Clinton. I think she's more GOP than she lets on.
     
  17. Kampf Trinker

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    Well, yeah. Don't worry, her base will be more GOP when she tells them to be too. Bernie's long since out of the way.
     
  18. Dcc001

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    Can we agree that while Clinton is perhaps the biggest political sellout on the ticket who caters primarily to big business, and says things only because focus groups tell her they're popular, she has not:

    - sexually assaulted anyone
    - maliciously sued anyone
    - had children by multiple people with a history of imploding marriages and rampant accusations of misogyny
    - declared bankruptcy numerous times to the tune of billions of dollars
    - completely alienated even the most hardcore of her supporters

    I don't like Clinton. She's at the very least going to be a letdown from the poise and grace the Obama family has shown in that office. But Jesus Christ...Trump is SO MUCH WORSE.
     
  19. Kubla Kahn

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    Ive said all along how disappointed Ive been that the republicans had nominated a guy with such a terrible polarizing personality that what in a normal election cycle voter apathy alone could have propelled anyone else into the office. I think it is more telling about democrats that despise his personality so much they are willing to write off or minimize Hillary Clinton's behavior. This after years of fomenting anger of the political system her type are responsible for that really limits choice.

    I don't know what Im going to do come election day. Im a single issue gun voter most of the time. With Clinton's stance on gun control and her and her surrogates mentioning they think the SCOTUS got it wrong with Heller and McDonald and it should be looked at again once the make up of the court is a majority left leaning I can't just sit home (Be truthful would any pro choice voter stay home if there were even a chance Pence could become president? No matter how much distaste there is for your side's candidate?). On the other hand Trump has been so all over the place on so many issues and his reactions are so out Im considering just voting down ticket only.
     
  20. Kampf Trinker

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    Who did Trump sexually assault? I'm not talking about a scandal for anything he's ever said. I mean, has that actually happened? Is so, when? Also, did Clinton sexually assault Lewinsky by taking advantage of his position of power and her youthful naivety?