It'll be interesting to see what the fallout is for Trump's various businesses after all this. In August Forbes reported a 27% decline in foot traffic to Trump properties. Here's an article talking about a 60% decrease in Trump hotel bookings. You think this campaign would force him into another bankruptcy? If I was a betting man I'd feel safe putting money on him being a political commentator, but that only pays so much.
You have to remember how hated Strickland is (was). The state's economy was terrible under his regime. This probably was not his fault, but people still see it that way. I remember seeing him at the civil rights baseball game in Cincinnati a few years ago. Hank Aaron and Ali were there. They got a huge applause. Strickland was treated to 40k boos. It was crazy.
I don't know that I could blame them for picking up their guns. At what point is revolting appropriate when your government no longer represents you? This whole campaign has been obsessed with racism, misogyny, islamophobia, antisemitism and on and on. The more obvious Clinton's lies are the more loudly she proclaims her integrity, and more severely she denounces her enemies. I can believe that Trump is an out of touch rich white guy. No problem there, but is there anything he doesn't viciously hate other than himself according to the left campaign at this point? Funny thing is Trump is doing worse with whites, and better with women and minorities than any republican candidate in modern history [the general trends of the republican party being the white male party still being generally true though]. I thought it was stupid of him to say Clinton should be jailed in the debate, but if anyone on this board engaged in a fraction of her corruption at work you would be fired at a minimum. During her presidency I fully expect a series of pointless feel good legislation to pass to keep people distracted from what is happening to our government. Affirmative action. Some gun bill that modestly reduces the clip bullets in *insert specific type of pistol*. The Trump sex scandal stuff is newsworthy, but they're barely touching on Clinton's corruption. If you vote for Clinton your vote doesn't matter. Not because you live in a red or blue state, but because she has no interest in representing you. You're giving up democracy in the name of human rights. Think about it.
Courtesy of Anonymous: Seems they have no love for Clinton either. I doubt they are doing this for Donald's benefit either. To echo what Kampf just said. Trump is a despicable human being and not worthy of leading a local civic organization let alone a nation-state. Nothing he says at this point will change that, he is who he is. Unfortunately, the other candidate is an even worse person as all of her history as an adult proves. She is literally the definition of corruption and the icon for everything that most Americans find absolutely wrong with this country and want changed. I really don't think you could find someone else in America to run against her at this point where she would have a chance of winning. Going a little further: Donald Trump has been a big supporter of the Clinton Syndicate throughout their time in national politics and, based on his behavior, I really have to wonder if he still isn't. As far as the Republican party goes; they may as well hang it up at this point. They are done. It is time for a complete reboot or a new party altogether. I started to think about it and wonder though, if they get rid of the Evangelicals and soften their social stances, what are they really? Does it really just turn completely in to a single party.....the Establishment - now, without the false pretenses.
They don't have anyone else. Sherrod Brown is the only bonefied super star that has come around since the retirement of John Glen. Remember Eric Fingerhut? Kasich had anyone in a union ready to chop his head off. Is all they had to do was trot out a non idiot. And the best they had was Fingerhut. Mike Coleman could have put up a better fight. But then a little more of the redlight scandal would have come out. So no, they had nobody.
Nett called it. Trump is denying it and threatening lawsuits. Either way, it's a bad look for someone who has a hell of a lot of bad looks right now. As everyone was kinda predicting around the time the audio came out, that leak is looking more and more like the hole that sinks the ship.
Hillary has been hoarding this stuff for awhile. The timing is just too convenient, and if anyone thinks she's above a campaign tactic like this, well I'm not going convince you at this point. That's not to say he didn't do these things. He probably did. I've been thinking about how much of this stuff is just being a disgusting pig and hitting on women too aggressively, and whether it actually is sexual assault, but it doesn't really matter because it's not like either classification is going to make him less of a piece of shit. I can't believe Trump is actually threatening law suits. Any chance he had of salvaging looked gone in that second debate, but goddamn dude.
So you're saying I should vote for the guy who has promised that upon election he will use the powers of his office to go after his political opponent? That sounds like a great democracy to live in to me. Oh yeah, he will be trying to take away human rights too. Such a win. Are you saying I should vote third party? No you can't be saying that because you think my vote should matter. Yup, you're obviously a fan of living in a democracy. I suppose Al Gore voters should have revolted in 2000. Give me a break. You're sipping on some seriously unhinged nonsense. If you think Hillary is corrupt and the system is corrupt, I want to hear what you think Trump is going to do to make the system better. I'm not even sure if he knows how the system works if he thinks a senator from New York can just make up her own tax code, but I'll listen. Trump isn't an out of touch rich white guy. That gives him way too much credit. Do you seriously listen to him and think he has good ideas? At the debates his answers are nonsensical. Seriously. Go back and listen to him talk about healthcare. Or his plans for ISIS. Or crime. He isn't out of touch so much as he is wholly ignorant demagogue who is such a threat to the republic that you have smart people like the editors of Foreign Policy magazine endorsing Hillary Clinton when they don't endorse candidates. Hillary is terrible...until you compare her to Donald Trump. Oh no, someone who isn't getting enough flouride in his water.
His plans on international trade are good. His plan for healthcare of increasing competition by removing state borders is a good one. The limited competition is driving premiums and deductibles up. I would rather have public health care, personally. He hasn't talked about his plan for ISIS in specificity whatsoever with the justification that stating a plan to defeat an enemy out in the open public is antithetical to that goal. Which is true, but still, terrible platform on that issue throughout his campaign. By the way, the Clinton foundation is taking money from governments that are funding ISIS. Hillary has known these governments are funding ISIS for a long time and would not state it publicly, nor does it appear she has done anything about it. What does this tell you about her strategy? You are in complete denial about Hillary and obsessed with fear mongering about Trump. At this point, I think everyone can see it except you. You weren't able to read between the lines of the statement you were quoting, but that doesn't really surprise me. Fair Game is a book anyone interested in the politics of this country should read. It's written by a CIA agent the Bush administration burned after her husband published an article detailing the lies Cheney and Bush told to get this country to go to war. Her husband had been sent on intelligence gathering missions and Bush stated the opposite of his findings. Which is what is so frustrating to me about people trying to split the corruption in this country into a left vs right dichotomy. It's not a partisan issue at all.
I'll ignore trade because we just disagree on that. As far as healthcare goes, premiums and deductibles would be lower, but so would coverage. The lowest common denominator plan would be everywhere and people would be screwed in end. Trump could get away with the secret plan bit if he didn't think a "sneak attack" on Mosul was possible and wasn't so obviously incompetent when discussing it. He knows more than the generals don't'cha know. And you think Clinton likes ISIS and wants to keep it around? I'm in complete denial? I just said she was terrible. How much more clear does it get? Obsessed with fear mongering about Trump? You are leveling charges of someone fear mongering? Let me get condescending real quick: come the fuck on. You're suggesting armed revolt if Clinton wins. You're digging so deep into your Clinton hate that you're posting 30 minute youtube rants by some anonymous guy who is using clips from James O'Keefe productions. That's where you're coming from. You're one step removed from pulling an Alex Jones and calling Clinton a literal demon. My fear mongering is posting editorials from foreign policy experts who say this: If everyone can see what you're spouting as truth, Hillary wouldn't be winning right now. The GOP would be creaming their pants at a landslide victory. Instead the opposite is happening. I'm in pretty good anti-Trump company with your boy Bernie, a slew of Republican senators, etc. etc. Now as far as me being a condescending and snarky asshole. I'm sorry I hurt your feelings. I keep forgetting that this is your safe space where you can post unhinged nonsense and go unchallenged. Then again I haven't been repping you that you're a complete fucking idiot or posting shit like "I'm not doing the Gravy thing" or even straight up calling you dumb (recently, I think I did in the past), so I'm not sure I'm the only asshole here. No matter. I want to get back to the issues.
I'm very conflicted about this. On one hand, it was good for the country. We needed to move forward and get shit done. On the other hand, it makes it more likely that it will happen again. But to be clear, I do think it is a very different situation from Clinton's nonsense as her alleged crimes have already been investigated ad nauseum. If something legit isn't there, the investigators have to have been incompetent.
I don't think these countries giving money to ISIS is directly related to the benefits they expect to receive from a Clinton administration, but she didn't reveal their involvement because of the conflict of interest. You have to be extremely naive to believe otherwise. This is also why I find it unlikely she's going to knock out the financial pillars ISIS stands on. This is going to be our leader on foreign policy. I don't know what kind of health care plan you have, but if you are ever given options by an employer the affordable care act is terrible in comparison. Trump wants to make denying coverage to those with pre-existing conditions illegal, which basically means the premiums will be set at a fixed rate determined by market value since companies have to take them on. I'm not sure if he wants to split applicants with pre-existing conditions equally among insurance companies as is determined by corporate size, which would be necessary. In any case, I like it better than the ACA, and given the problems with the ACA I don't think it's reasonable for someone to just write the alternatives off as fucking retarded. Alex Jones is just conspiracy theory nonsense. We're talking about legitimate grievances in this thread. I can understand why there might be riots and people more pissed off than usual after this election. Your foreign policy expert is a partisan hack. The Obama administration proliferated nuclear weapons into the most unstable region of the world. He thinks Trump is a bad businessman because he understands nothing about finance. Trump is someone who understands the tax code and abuses it to the outer most limits, just like the donors to the Clinton campaign do. Many of those 'losses' and 'failures' are there so he can take more money to the bank. This was one of Trump's better moments in the debate. He had a few when he wasn't coming across like a complete jackass. Most people are low information voters who aren't aware of what's been posted in this thread. The media isn't helping, quite the opposite. Then there's the fact that Trump is himself a detestable candidate. Then there's the fact that the media and the Clinton campaign have built Trump into a monster that wants to be a dictator, and destroy everyone that is or could potentially represent any kind of minority figure. That's what I meant by give up democracy in the name of human rights. They're losing something very important to a fight a war that doesn't exist. Trump has stood for campaign finance reform. Hillary has too, but no one in their right mind could believe her. I don't find it at all difficult to believe prominent republicans are ditching him to help maintain the status quo, especially when you consider how the dems held together through the Clinton scandals, and no one left Bush during his own. This is just speculation though. I don't think Trump is the answer to the myriad problems in our democracy. Bernie was probably the best shot we had, but the system is so fucked right now I doubt any one candidate could fix it, or that it could be done in one four year term.
Earlier in the thread you said criticisms of Clinton were hollow without fail. You're starting to admit she's a shitty human being, but the more you read into her the worse it gets. The actions of the Clinton foundation's activity with donors from foreign governments is in direct violation of the constitution. They're just calling it something it isn't on a technicality, and that's only a beginning to the numerous frauds and felonies throughout the organization. Politicians accepting bribes to shape policy is a crime too, and that's something they're all doing.
The Clinton Foundation is small potatoes when it comes to knocking out the financial pillars of ISIS. If Clinton could get credit for knocking out ISIS at the expense of her foundation wouldn't she do it? The reality is that the Middle East is a gordian knot that no one knows how to cut through. A random internet poster shouldn't be able to give a better informed answer than a candidate. I wasn't writing the alternatives off as fucking retarded. I was writing off his answer as fucking retarded. I just went to his website which lists an 8 or so step plan for healthcare. The candidate himself couldn't get past item two, so I'm doubting his ability to make any of it happen. And I wasn't alone in not understanding what he was saying. But okay, you hate the problems with the ACA. It wasn't one foreign policy expert. It was an entire organization of them. An organization that prides itself on not being hacks by never endorsing a candidate before. I wouldn't worry so much about their commenting on his businesses as much as his foreign policy ideas and general ignorance though. I excerpted a bad bit. Occam's razor: the media is focusing on how terrible Trump is because Trump is terrible. "the media and the Clinton campaign have built Trump into a monster that wants to be a dictator" He doesn't seem to have much regard for checks and balances. How many times has he said "I alone can fix this." As far as destroying everyone that could potentially represent any kind of minority figure, he did just threaten to jail the woman who most minority figures are choosing to represent them. But as far as building people into a monster, what about the media you consume? Actually you seem to get a wide variety. But what about the anti-Clinton media? Do you really think Fox News is fair and balanced? Or the Daily Caller? What have Republicans been trying to do since 1992? Tear down the Clintons plain and simple. The one unifying factor of the Republican party this year has been the hatred of the Clintons, and it seems to me that a lot of it is manufactured. The Benghazi investigations prove that. They were trying to make sure she couldn't run this year. Give up democracy in the name of human rights? Trump would ideally give gay marriage back to the states, ban abortion, and re-institute stop and frisk. Those are real policies that do affect human rights. How has he stood for campaign finance reform? He has talked about it. That puts him on even footing with Hillary as far as I'm concerned. If Republicans wanted to maintain the status quo they never would have endorsed him in the first place. Maintaining the status quo is their back up plan now. That's the best they can do. The guy you think gave the best shot to fix the system is now explicitly saying to vote for Clinton. Shouldn't his endorsement seal the deal that as far as the system goes a Clinton presidency is better than a Trump one? Hollow without fail meaning they don't inspire one to vote for Trump. I wouldn't even go so far as to admit she is a shitty human being. Not next to a guy who is okay with saying all the things he has said and apparently done with women. If it was clear that she violated the Constitution why haven't all of her enemies prosecuted her for that? From politifact: It's worth noting that Trump began his campaign by asking for foreign donations. And he has also basically admitted to bribing politicians himself by using your standards. You say there are numerous frauds and felonies throughout the organization that no one can ever make stick. Why does that keep happening? Seriously. How many people have looked into her with things to gain from finding guilt and coming up with zilch? The Clintons are not that good at crime while remaining public figures. They always come away looking shady, but never criminal. A lot of your concerns come from the Clintons and their level of transparency with various financial dealings. Why do you think Trump refuses to release his tax returns? If he wanted to fix the system and make it more transparent, wouldn't he do that as he has called on previous candidates to do so before him?
Wow. This stuff has been proven, several times in this thread. I'm not going to post it over and over. Your answer has been, well, why wouldn't they be in jail then? How does that debunk anything? Again, you have to reconcile the incriminating evidence against her, you can't just say "I think X is what she would do." Especially when we are talking about a pathological liar. Even in this very election, wikileaks has posted damning evidence such as the private wall street speeches saying she has NO INTENTION of carrying out many aspects of her platform that she still claims to stand for. He had two minutes on this question, and I agree, it wasn't one of his better moments in the debate, but it's not like he could lay out the whole plan. You aren't really arguing against his position or for Hillary's though. Whatever. This is an important issue, but not the primary concern for me this election. But again, if you are arguing for Hillary's plan, what does her stated plan even matter? Given how much we know she has lied about and is lying about right now, is it what she puts down based on what focus groups say the American electorate want to hear actually that relevant? She's had a conflict of interest with this her whole career as well, of course. Did you watch the video I posted about her relationship with the media? And you can't tell me it's unbiased when it was doing the same shit with Bernie Sanders, while the DNC and the Clinton campaign were committing election fraud. These are serious, serious fucking problems that you can't just write off. I honestly virtually never watch fox news or go to their website. Most of my media that has informed me about Clinton has been independent articles, blogs, wikileaks, etc. I tend to trust the guy who is coming out and calling these things what they are. He's admitted to bribing politicians, and buying them on both sides of the aisle. Clinton has pretended it doesn't influence her decision making. It's an important difference. He has also admitted to abusing the tax system, which he does seem quite good at, and gives me confidence he knows how to close the loopholes. We know what Clinton has done her entire career as a politician. I would rather have the unknown, especially when he is plainly stating the problem and other is not.
I wanted to point out something regarding this I forgot in the last post. Suddenly, when all of this information comes out there's all these conspiracy theories that its the Russians. The media has been blaring this nonstop. Wikileaks has an excellent track record, and the Russians have been trying to hack us since ever, as well as us them. Suddenly Russian hacking is a major news story. The leaks are allegedly written by Russians, while at the same time Clinton advocates are appearing on the networks and saying nothing in the leaks conflicts with her campaign? Does anybody believe this?
So a bunch of people on an internet forum can prove it, but prosecutors who get paid to do so can't. That makes sense. It debunks on the basis of there was no actual crime then. It was nothing that heinous from what I can tell. Public vs private position is something all politicians do. Or the ones who expect to get something done at least. That's called making a deal. Summing up: Hillary is a liar so you can't believe anything she said is true. How many times a day does Trump straight up lie without a regard for the truth? He lies about fucking everything. "I didn't say check out a sex tape" Oh here's a tweet saying that. "I didn't say global warming was a Chinese hoax" Oh here's a tweet saying that. "Muslims were cheering on 9/11, I saw video" No video exists. "Everyone saw the bombs in the San Bernadino apartment" Nope, no one did. "Crime is at it's highest point in 45 years" No, it's not. "We have the highest tax rate in the world" No, we don't. This is where your criticisms ring hollow. You want to vote for Trump on the idea that he tells the truth when in fact no one can keep up with his lies. He has broken our political system by telling so many. He isn't accountable for anything. And if he is telling the truth, he is telling the truth about sexual assault when he says "you can do anything." You say sexism doesn't exist in America, but you're sitting here willing to vote for a guy who committed sexual assault based on stardom and power and making him the most powerful man in the world. Yeah, I can write off your thirty minute anonymous youtube rant. I didn't watch the whole thing, no. And you're not really seeing the point here. He isn't plainly stating the problem. If he were, he might be doing better in the polls. He never talks about campaign finance or how to fix our democracy. He is just saying give me power; I alone can fix it. Again, he wants the system to be better but he won't release his tax returns, etc. Why did you skip my Bernie question? I really want to know how your mind works here. How do you go from thinking Bernie was your guy to ignoring his endorsement?
No intention of carrying out her platform doesn't bother you. First you were saying there wasn't a conflict with her campaign. Now, it's ok if there is a conflict with her campaign. While she is being paid, behind closed doors, to support a banking structure that no one can coherently explain how it benefits the American public. Is this your debunking? It's not going so well. Ok, so you didn't even look at it. That's fine. There's plenty in the last two videos in this thread. Start there. Your idea that a political establishment rife with fraud and corruption would definitely convict people in that system rife with corruption and fraud isn't very believable. I don't know why Bernie is endorsing her. That's why so many of his supporters were pissed off. He's very far left and thinks Trump is worse. On explanations he's given that I've seen it amounts to "to stop Trump." Trump is a shitty candidate as well, so it's not terribly shocking. This doesn't disprove anything about Clinton's scandals. He talked about it IN THE LAST DEBATE. What the fuck? This is true, and it's what makes Trump such a bad candidate as well. A lot of this stuff is him lying about his personal life, or flipping on stupid statements he's made out of ignorance, but yeah it's happening consistently enough to make anyone look pretty bad. He's an inexperienced politician, and he is by no means above disingenuous campaign tactics. But on the issues most important to me he hits the nail on the head. My problem is that much of this country is either ill informed, or in denial about the erosion of our rights and the corruption destroying our republic. You can't fix the problem if people don't know about it, or don't want to believe it exists.
I must have missed it. Probably too distracted by [any of the things he did that should tank him as a candidate]. This is all that matters then. You have the candidate who will best advocate for you and your vision of the country. Your vision of the country is likely my dystopia, so I might as well give up now.
Maybe I'm not as well fluoridated as everyone else but so what? I think you guys are maybe one or two more posts each from agreeing with each other, I can see it happening. Anyways, if you haven't watched that video made by Anonymous, you should. It is full of direct quotes from Governmental agency reports relating to the events throughout Clinton's past. In reality though, I realize everyone has made up their minds at this point, right? You hate them both but you hate Clinton/Trump worse, so you are going to vote for Clinton/Trump, right? It boggles my mind and I know we will get the hair lip, Simpson's video response to not voting for one of two people but here's an honest question for you: How much more dredging of the bottom are you people willing to really do here? Don't you want change, don't you want something better? This really is embarrassing the Rapist vs. the Rapist Enabler? So, who is actually going to go and pull the lever on 11/8, can you bring your self to do it? If you choose the lesser of two evils, you have already lost.