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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. CharlesJohnson

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    The two articles I read gave no details. The chief of police came out to say the body cam video is so damning they can't share any details lest there be a riot. That's bad.

    My question is, why haven't police departments begun purging these volatile liabilities from their ranks? At the very least take them off road duty. Yeah, they're in "the club," whatever, I get it. That point is behind us. Now it is just stupid and costly to allow these types to go about business as usual. You can't put the toothpaste back in the tube.
     
  2. Binary

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    Sexism? Where did you get that?

    It's not exclusive to men, but they're definitely the largest consumer of these services, which is why I said they're "primarily" men. Maybe that's overstating it, but women are absolutely in a significant minority for these hunts (not talking about hunting in general, I'm talking about these specialized services).

    Prior to traveling to Africa a couple years ago I talked to a number of conservation agencies there in a few parts of the country. When I travel internationally, I make it a point to support a local cause, charity or organization and I usually research the organizations in advance. I got a lot of information about the various conservation efforts, some of which are supported by the large costs of these big game hunts. Some of the information was collected directly from the agencies, some of it collected on my own afterwards... I can probably dig up my folder of links when I get home since I'm guessing I still have it.

    I have no doubt that there are well-run hunts that utilize actual tracking skills to locate animals that present a real test to hunters, and I do appreciate that a lot of money is funneled into local economies on the backs of those hunts. But most of these hunters are looking for a trophy, not a challenge.

    This is not an animal that presents a challenging kill unless you're on foot and using a spear.
     
    #602 Binary, Jul 29, 2015
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2015
  3. Crown Royal

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    From what I have read he had his fucking head blown off and--for the first time in the history of anything-- no cop has come to his defence. We watched an NYPD strangle a man to death on camera and that entire force of assholes backed the killer.

    This has to be something truly horrific, and they're releasing the footage tomorrow with the grand jury result announcement today at 1 pm.
     
  4. AbsentMindedProf

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    I live in Cincinnati, and there is a lot of trepidation over this announcement. The city has a history of racial tension(we had riots in 2001), but has gotten better over the years. There's a lot of indications that they plan to indict, but they've said they plan to release the footage tomorrow. If they don't indict things could get very ugly. I'm optimistic though. There would definitely be protests, but I don't think anyone wants violence to break out. We'll see.
     
  5. Nettdata

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    The online mob mentality... everyone loves a good pile-on, and the media takes full advantage of it, and feeds it.
     
  6. Frebis

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    Didn't Juice say one time that he was going to be gifted a big game hunt as a wedding present?

    Kubla stay safe today. Hopefully Cincinnati doesn't burn.
     
  7. Angel_1756

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    I'm just going to make the casual observation that the public outrage over the senseless death of a lion seems to be considerably more vehement than the public outrage over the numerous senseless deaths of innocent human beings on a daily basis. Not to say the lion's death is warranted, I'm just making the observation.
     
  8. Frebis

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    No. I just thought I read that and wanted to know your opinion on the matter. Sorry if I was wrong. It's hard for me to call everyone an ass hole involved in it without hearing the other side.
     
  9. katokoch

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    Suggesting (male) big game hunters have small dicks, unless I'm missing something.

    Is there active hunting where you took that photo (or where it was taken)? That lioness shouldn't have to worry about being shot anyways because she's not a mature male, so it's not a fair comparison. Again, unless all of the hunt reports I read are false, it varies from place to place and there may be water hole hunts for a particular animal in some cases but the hunts in large, remote areas are a very different story.
     
  10. Juice

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    Ive been big game hunting before. Heres how its supposed to work. You typically have to get a few permits. One from the national jurisdiction you are going to be hunting in, the license to kill the game, and if applicable, a sign off from some local wild life conservation depending on where you are doing it.

    You hunt the animal with a guide or a tracker, who is usually aware of exactly what age/gender the game is supposed to be based on their own guidelines from the conservation effort. In some scenarios where the game is very rare, as with some species of rhino, theres a specific animal you are supposed to kill. Why would someone want to hunt something that rare and why would it be allowed? Lets say there 5 white rhinos left in the world. 3 of them are female, 2 of them are male. One of the male's is old, non-breeding, and is aggressive to other males and the female. Thats a significant risk to the entire conservation effort. So instead of putting the animal down themselves, the jurisdiction will allow a hunter to come through, pay $50K - $100K and take down an animal they were going to kill anyway.

    I didnt go on a hunt nearly that extravagant, but it was a similar albeit lesser process. Once you kill the animal, you already have an agreement in place to either provide it to local tribesmen (in Africa or South America) for food and resources or donate the carcass to a scientific effort that is aware of what you are doing ahead of time. No part of the carcass is wasted. You don't get to bring home a lion head and mount it on your wall in your den or make a nice carpet by the fireplace. This isnt 1900 and you arent Teddy Roosevelt. Occasionally you can keep a trophy, but US Customs has some serious rules against it and theres an enormous amount of red tape. Plus, theres a huge negative stigma within the community against doing it.

    As for this guy, by all accounts, hes essentially an illegal poacher. He killed an animal that shouldnt have been hunted, in an inhumane way, without the support of local conservation.
     
  11. Flat_Rate

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    From what I just saw on the news they've indicted him for murder.

    The body cam footage completely contradicts the officers version of events according to the multiple articles I just read.

    The man deserves a life sentence.
     
    #611 Flat_Rate, Jul 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  12. CharlesJohnson

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    They are indicting Officer Ray Tensing for the murder of DuBose.

    The video is apparently up on Gawker (I have no desire to watch it), but pretty much that. The guy didn't remove his seatbelt and within seconds he's dead and his foot hits the gas. The cop was never dragged, he fell over from the pistol recoil.

    Welp, he'll have fun in prison.
     
  13. Binary

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    Please take that comment in the context of the rest of the post - I'm not referring to hunters in general, but as a joking remark about those that participate in these set-up hunts that seem to want this trophy photo/experience/stuffed head that didn't actually require the slightest bit of skill to acquire.

    No, and it's a juvenile male. I'm not sure what your point is there, though. Unless these animals are going through some kind of training session, possibly separated into little groups like sex ed in grade school? "Okay, girls! This is how your period works, and also don't worry about getting shot because you're not a trophy animal." Instincts are instincts, and mankind's rapid proliferation of high powered hunting rifles and predilection for big lion manes doesn't overcome a hundred thousand years of evolution.

    My point is that many apex predators are not evolved to sufficiently fear human beings, and especially on the savanna as much of Zimbabwe is, there is little instinct to run or hide, nor much cover under which to do so. In areas like Kruger I suppose there's at least a challenge of the geography of dense forests.

    Just seems ridiculous to me. When I watch a giant animal regard me from a dozen yards away with no fear and not so much as a branch of shelter for a thousand feet in any direction, it's hard to imagine a scenario where killing it would be "sporting" - unless that scenario also involves the substantial possibility of him getting to me first. It's not a condemnation of hunting, just this particular type of hunting.

    Moving these posts to the sober thread in 3...2...1...
     
  14. Binary

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    Sorry for dropping one conversation into another here. @shegirl sent me topless pics in return for taking the serious conversation out of the WDT. I couldn't resist. I've never seen a 9 foot tall girl's boobs before.
     
  15. JoeCanada

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    Remember the incident a while back where a guy (Corey Knowlton) killed an African Black rhino and everyone lost their shit? Joe Rogan had him on his podcast, and it was really interesting. It's absolutely a more complex issue than people think.

    The rhino he killed was an aggressive, older, non-breeding male, who was killing younger rhinos. So yes, "killing an endangered animal" sounds bad, but it's really not in that case. The rhino had to go, plain and simple; it was 100% good for the herd. But people can NOT get past their initial emotional reaction to "endangered rhino killed by rich white guy" and they self-righteously lose their shit all over the place.

    Personally I think it's fucking ridiculous that people in our society get this outraged. Wendy's uses fun, colourful advertisements to try and sell as many baconators as possible - "we can kill as many factory farmed/tortured animals as you want, don't worry, order 5!" - and nobody gives a shit. A lion dies on the other side of the world and "ohh my heart bleeds for that poor, beautiful animal!!" Shut the fuck up. Jesus Christ.

    It sounds like this guy did kill the wrong lion in the wrong place, so I hope he's punished accordingly - but fairly.
     
    #615 JoeCanada, Jul 29, 2015
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2015
  16. xrayvision

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    The thing of it is that it's not just this particular lion, which is bad enough. It's that there were up to 24 cubs from his genetic line that will most likely also be killed by the next dominant male who takes over.

    I get the whole removing the bad apple idea behind certain kills. But to maim the wrong one and have it suffer for a day and a half before you finish it off pretty much sucks.

    Plus his whole fucked up history doesn't help.
     
  17. dewercs

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    I think the guy got scammed by the guides into thinking what he was doing was legal, the guy is a business owner who has to represent himself to the public as a professional with some kind of ethics so it just does not make sense that he went in knowing he was poaching a well loved lion, he just had way to much to lose to knowingly do it. Although ignorance is not an excuse it makes his participation in the hunt more understandable.
    As for the hunt itself, I do not consider that hunting it is sport killing for a good picture or something you can hang on your wall, so if he is going to participate in that he needs to make a kill shot and be backed up with a rifle. I am not a huge fan of that type of canned hunt but I understand why they do it.

    Worse than the killing of the male is the fact he had a number lionesses a few of which were pregnant and when a new male moves in it will kill all cubs that are not his so I kind of fucks the whole conservation thing they are trying to do.
     
  18. Robbie Clark

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    The footage, while infuriating, isn't graphic in any way. The guy got pulled over for a BS reason, and doesn't have his license on him. The cop tells him to get out of the car and starts to open the guy's door. The guy attempts to pull the door closed and it sounds and looks like he's starting his car to leave. The cop yells and pulls his gun and points it at the guy and shoots. The video is chaotic during this part so you can't see blood or anything.
     
  19. Nettdata

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    EVERYTHING is more complex than people think it is. Society, as a whole, seems to think that the 15 second sound bite they hear conveys enough for them to understand what is going on.

    The way people get all pissy when you try to explain to them that things are more complex than they think it is, as if you're calling them stupid, is frustrating.
     
  20. Nettdata

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    I don't think he's as innocent as that.. he's already been on probation for lying to game wardens: http://www.weau.com/home/headlines/18015589.html

    I'm not saying he knew this particular case was illegal, but it's not like I'm going to give him the complete benefit of the doubt.. he's knowingly done illegal hunting shit in the past, lied about it, and got caught.