We hope that the cops involved get their asses handed to them along with a jail sentence. But you can't argue in absolutes... you can't say that because a few (and really, it's a few, not a lot) situations like you describe happen that you shouldn't do what you're told. It's not like getting shot when you do what you're told is the only and expected outcome. Not by a long shot. That's like saying, "well, you're just going to die by cancer anyway, so might as well smoke". No, you do what you can to mitigate that outcome.
Of course they should be reported on, but dude, you know as well as I that they're playing them up because it gets ratings. There's a reason stories about a cop shooting a black guy goes on for months, and stories about some gang banger getting shot doesn't even make the headlines. Both victims are just as dead, but one is far juicier for the public than the other.
But, I'm not arguing absolutes. You're saying, "if you don't want to get shot by a cop, you comply". I'm not saying people shouldn't comply. Of course they should. What I'm saying is that when people do everything right, they still get shot anyway. That's like saying, "You're going to die by cancer, despite never smoking a single cigarette."
The media does this for everything. "If it bleeds, it leads" has been a maxim of journalism since the first newspaper was printed. Waving away concern because you think it's media-driven hype misses the point. Black people are getting shot by cops because cops believe black people are dangerous. Whenever you see someone defending the indefensible, it's because they feel uncomfortable because they realize their interactions with police aren't the same as black people. If they do enough mental gymnastics where the black guy getting shot had it coming, they don't have to feel quite so uncomfortable anymore. They can't wrap their heads around the fact that getting shot 7 times for complying with a police order is a thing that might happen to them, because it never would. This is why so many people defend police actions against black people, no matter how heinous it is.
Well can we agree that there is sliding scale at least? Mike Brown went for a police officer's gun and got shot. Thats not exactly a random police slaying. Eric Garner in New York? Pretty clear cut case of police brutality and homicide. Treyvon Martin? George Zimmerman wasnt a police officer. Once you dig down, the variances are pretty stark between the cases.
For one thing it's important to keep in mind the violent crime rates across races when having this discussion. What you're talking about actually does happen to white people as well (the media just doesn't care as much and it's probably less frequent). While I don't think anyone is wrong to basically say "don't be an idiot" when dealing with cops that doesn't equate to giving the cops a free pass. More importantly though, if you're going to go to some buzzfeed level 'psychology of whitey' nonsense I don't see a discussion accomplishing anything.
You're giving equal results to those that do and don't get shot. That's simply not true. You'd have better odds at winning the lottery than getting shot while complying. Just like you'd have a better chance at getting killed by a vehicular accident rather than a terrorist attack. But the media focus is on the shit that is sensationalist, and that focus blows that stuff up way, WAY out of proportion. Don't fall into that trap. MORE WHITE PEOPLE ARE SHOT BY COPS THAN BLACK PEOPLE ARE SHOT BY COPS. IT'S NOT A RACE THING.
I'm not black, so I'm not going to make any proclamations on their behalf. For me personally, a sliding scale leads to a slippery slope. Just because a determination is made in one case, doesn't mean those determinations are applicable in another. Each incident has its own circumstances. Maybe people shouldn't automatically assume cops are in the right all the time, especially when cops have been found to be racially motivated time and again. Maybe we shouldn't immediately assume that because a victim had a record, they were suddenly deserving of being killed by police.
You may find this an interesting read: https://www.themarshallproject.org/2016/02/08/black-and-unarmed-behind-the-numbers#.gxifNyHxK
Nobody is saying that. But the corollary is true as well... maybe people shouldn't automatically assume cops are in the wrong all the time, especially when cops have been found to NOT be racially motivated time and time again.
Right... and one of my examples was where a cop blatantly committed a murder. Others had more shades of gray to them. Each situation is different as you say, so perhaps proclamations should not be made either way?
Y'all realize no one would be talking about this if the media didn't make a big deal of it right? The very fact that it's on the news, means it's not normal. Trayvon Martin happened, then everyone jumped on the "oh shit let's make a big deal outta that!!" bandwagon. And it's been ratings gold ever since.
Your uncomfortableness is showing. No, I'm not, but I can see how the way I phrased it that you could take it that way. What I meant to say was "What I'm saying is that when some black people do everything right, they still get shot anyway." To add to this, although not all black people who comply get shot, all black people know that complying could gets you shot anyway. White people getting shot by cops and a cop's belief that black people are, in general, more dangerous, can occur at the same time. There are also a lot more white people than black people. But on a per capita basis, how do the numbers look? How many stories do you hear about white people being stopped while in a nice neighborhood? If both sides shut the fuck up and didn't just jump to immediate conclusions, or didn't try to justify the actions of one side over the other until all the facts came out, I think we can agree on that. However, there are a lot more people (and I'm not saying anybody here in particular, but in the US in general) that believe cops are justified, more often than not.
Just personal observation but the large majority of conversations, internet or otherwise, Ive had with cops or cop supporters it really boils down to being labelled a racist, explicitly or implicitly, and the immediate emotional reaction against that. Im not sure how you square the fact that there is some implicit racism in interactions of black people and the fact that in reality crime is more a function of socio economic issues. Thus the vast majority of these stops being because they take place in high crime shitty neighborhoods over the fact that more African Americans happen to be poor. The per capita stat that is wheeled out by everyone in this argument feels tenious at best as far as proving the assertion that it's simply because cops are more afraid of blacks. It's a broad brush assertion attached to a fairly narrow statistic. Again like I mentioned with Audrey, shifting the focus onto non powder keg issues that ultimately lessen police interactions with poor people seems like a great place to start to find common ground. Discconecting ticket money from police budgets (Id suggest donating monetary penalties to charity), lessening the penalities, money or legally, for non violent offences (expired tags, jay walking, etc), if you pay up front or before your court date you get a reduced monetary penalty and it doesn't go on your record and so forth, only really could do this if the money was not directed to police budgets This just trying to avoid the cycle of court dates poor people can't make it to and afford to begin with coupled with the punishments that hamstring them after.
Hey! I just said that! Black people are more likely to be stopped more than whites, regardless of socioeconomic status.
In our city people had an issue with "carding" which is when the police stop you in public and ask you for ID. You have the right to refuse, and they have to tell you about the right when they stop you. But they did it in tandems of three uniformed police on one random individual walking alone. There were complaints of psychological detainment, my friend who's a cop was getting pissed at platoon guys intimidating people in tandem for no reason and having it come back to him. People hated it and wanted statistics proving the tactic's effectiveness. When they showed race statistics for carding, In our city our population is 3% black. But more than twice that percentage of stops were on black people. It measured nearly the same for natives. It wasn't something people would protest or get super-outraged at, there was no extreme form of bias but it raised an eyebrow or two with it showed up on the news. So in the Canadian tradition of "Not Making Much Of A Fuss", citizens voiced their concerns at the police HQ conferences and city hall and the city basically said "Tone it down, the people have spoken". And they did. The police listened, gave strict reason and regulation for carding, and people haven't complained (that I know of) since. Community policing works both ways.
Can someone smarter than me please explain how bitcoin et al isn't just a ridiculous pipe dream? It isn't backed by gold, or by force; I'd call it even less fiat than fiat. How can they claim the supply is finite when it is literally 1s and 0s? http://observer.com/2017/06/illinois-is-venezuela-and-the-solution-is-cryptocurrency/
The protocol maxes out at 21,000,000 and it was pretty much arbitrary. It has to do with a combination of the blocks per hour and halving period. It doesnt really have to do with relative value, just the maximum number that will be produced.