You notice how you're the only one suggesting that Antifa is equal to Nazi's? You want to read this closer, one more time: no one is suggesting the violence is ok. These two sides are not equal. Yes, the "side" against homophobia and racism is objectively a better choice than Nazi's and the KKK. This doesn't mean it's acceptable to commit crimes against Nazis/KKK members/etc. So, to whit: the Nazi's, White Supremacists and KKK members that are suddenly emboldened by Trump's presidency are a problem. The Antifa movement isn't calling for genocide, last I checked. It's wrong when either side commits crimes. It's wrong to equivocate a side that advocates genocide (by any measure of reason, an evil thing to espouse) with a "side" that opposes racism, discrimination and homophobia. Antifa: We oppose homophobia, racism and discrimination. America: Ok, those are fair things to oppose and have value in our political discourse. Nazi's: We want to murder niggers, jews, liberals and homosexuals, and enslave any race we deem inferior. America: We literally murdered millions of you because you have no place in our world. Nope. Antifa has a semi-legitimate place in our political spectrum. Nazi's do not, have not and will not. So, the problem is that the administration doesn't condemn a group seeking enslavement and genocide. And the media equates a fringe-left group with semi-legitimate concerns about discrimination with a fringe-right group that no American should consider part of the political spectrum. I can't fucking believe we have to have this discussion in 2017.
It seems that would not always be the case. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/w...ce-persuade-chicago-daryl-davis-a7489596.html
I never said they were equal. Originally, I asked if anyone on the left had called out antifa for their bullshit and I basically got responses saying "At least they're not as bad as Nazis." Are you familiar with Nazi Brownshirts who went to political rallies and beat the shit out of everyone who disagreed with their ideology? Pretty much exactly the same thing, different ideology.
What does 'anyone on the left calling out antifa' look like and why is it so important to you? Everyone in this thread as said that we don't support violence, and we're liberals/the left, but I guess we don't count? You seem to be looking for some very narrow and specific action. Maybe it'd be easier to engage with you on this if you'd spell out exactly what action(s) 'the left' can take that counts in your book.
The exception that proves the rule, or they really like blues piano. Were I to attempt something like that, prior to getting my ass kicked, they'd call my father a race traitor and me a mongrel. But if you want to believe one story can make all racists open to changing, I have a bridge to sell you.
I'm not looking for anything, it was just a question and apparently the answer is "Antifa is better then Nazis, we'd rather they weren't violent and destructive, but if they are, the other side probably deserved it, so they're good." The enemy of my enemy is my friend, so to speak.
And that is not what I fucking said. You made a statement in the absolute, and I was merely pointing out that that wasn't the case. And again you refute me with "all racists open to changing". I hate racists, and wish them no good will, but violence will not fix the problem, and all this "glad they got what they had coming to them" doesn't actually solve the problem, it only makes it worse. Sure, it FEEEELS good to see a fuckwad like that get punched in the face, but that is a short-term vision that will not make things better over the long term.
I'm struggling to understand what it means when I hear "make things better". Is it society? Society gets better the more equal things are. There are a myriad of studies to back this up. Is it race relations? Race relations wouldn't exist if racists didn't exist because we'd all look at each other as people. Is it peace? There can only be peace if racists aren't driving their cars through people that don't believe in racial supremacy. So, what is it? What exactly are the things you and every other white person talking about when violence erupts between decent people and those that have beliefs incompatible with the rest of decent society?
I agree with the latter not with the former. While the idea of being anti facist is legitimate, the group's method and majority of supporter's, I've seen, belief in the tenets of marxism should be just as illegitimate as nazism in our political spectrum.
Look, facist behavior is facist behavior. You say you're anti-facist but you are trying to shut down free speech because you don't agree with it then you are in the same boat with people preaching violence against minorities. Nobody involved is innocent and quite frankly, if you belong to either group then you are exactly the same to me, pure shit. I say this mostly in jest but I watched the Charlottesville rally and was saddened that there were survivors. If only they could have all died violently and painfully with the cameras rolling....it's all very Old Testiment-ish but I think we are now to the point where there needs to be more serious repercussions for stupid behavior as an example of what not to do.
Dude, really? Protesting white supremacists doesn't equal membership in Antifa. Protesting racism is not stupid behavior. A serious repercussion of standing by while fascists march (which is fucking stupid behavior, by the way) is tacit approval, which emboldens them even more. Why is this so fucking difficult to understand? Be against antifa, fine! Be against violence! BUT DON'T BE AGAINST FUCKING RACISTS AND FASCISTS IN OUR OWN FUCKING COUNTRY!
Yes, it is stupid behavior. Showing up somewhere at a protest between Antifa and White Supremicists when you belong to neither group is stupid behavior on your part plain and simple. You are asking for trouble and asking to be made either an example of or made a victim of violence. That opinion is not support for racist behavior, that is having enough common sense to avoid potential tragedy.
I hope your common sense will keep you in good stead when you wake up one day to find your country overrun with racists. Oh, wait. You're white so why would you give a shit? Your common sense dictates that since you're white, you won't be fucked with, right? My common sense dictates that people who are doing the right thing at whatever personal cost to themselves are heroes. They are no different than any soldier who fought against Nazis, or law enforcement who took down the KKK, or integrated schools.
You write a lot of idiotic bullshit like this that has no basis in fact and jumps to huge conclusions. You think because I am white that I have never been the victim of racist behavior? You think this countries only group with racists in it are white? I have no need to defend my self from the likes of you but understand that if you or anyone else is smart enough, they will have the situational awareness to know better than to put themselves in these positions, especially if you have loved ones you want to keep safe and/or continue to see because the potential to be injured or killed at these protests is real.
Wait, what? So let me get this straight... No one should ever counter-protest white supremacists because antifa may show up and if they do you're an idiot because you may get hurt. Is that what you're saying? First of all, racism in other countries doesn't apply to this conversation. Please stay on topic. Second of all, I don't see how there could be any other conclusion that a white person is not in any danger of being the victim of racial bigotry in the US from white supremacists. In fact any other conclusion would be completely illogical.
FFS. No. The point is that I don't feel bad for you at all if you get hurt or killed after showing up to stand nose-to-nose with Antifa, Nazis, whoever as a counter protester. You don't prove anything or influence anyone to change their opinion this way. The only thing you potentially do is ratchet up the potential for violence and with it your potential for not making it home from the rally. Fuck off, you stay on topic. I wasn't talking about other countries, I have been the victim of racist behavior here in Florida. I have been told in no uncertain terms I don't belong in a neighborhood I was in because I was white and to leave or get my ass kicked. So to say that whites or white supremacists are the ONLY racists in America is just plain wrong. Racist behavior is not the exclusive territory of white people and as I guess was bothering you so much in my last post, is not the sole territory of Americans.
Sure, there are bigoted people of all races and creeds. Nobody is denying that. But frankly, bigots in the US that aren't white supremacists don't really matter. They don't have any power. White supremacists are a threat because of the history of white racial prejudice in this country. They're a threat because we know what their goals look like because we only have to look back at US history to see them. It sucks that you experienced bigotry and those people who were bigots toward you are assholes. But you (and me, since I'm white) are in absolutely no danger of those guys getting into power and passing laws that make it illegal for white people to ride in the front of trains, or use the same bathrooms as other races, and so on and so forth. And we're also in no danger of businesses surreptitiously colluding so we're unable to buy homes in good neighborhoods or get loans for business. There's just no threat from them.