Vice put together a really great mini-documentary about the weekend. I think anyone wishing to understand what this weekend was about and what happened should watch it closely. Bonus: even a Canadian is in it.
I don't mean to be dismissive, but this is apples and oranges to me. Even though this guy is clearly a shitbag, I still don't feel threatened. There's no national movement with the support of US history behind him that calls/called for the oppression and murder of white people. So when I try to place it into some bigger context I come up empty. How am I supposed to view this as anything other than some random asshole?
My point being, taking a stand against racism is certainly a noble and just cause. But if you only take a stand against one race for being racist that's not being anti-racist, it's quite the opposite in fact. There are racist of every color and nationality in this country, many of whom are dangerous and capable of violence against whoever they perceive to be their enemy. If you take a stand against racism shouldn't you stand against all racism?
Of course I'm against all racism. But I'm also only a single person. I only have so much time, money, effort, and energy to devote to standing against racism, so I have to choose what racism to oppose the most. So I choose the worst of it, since that's the most logical way to go about it.
Trying to draw a line between white people rarely being targeted and literally everything blacks and other minorities have and continue to deal with on a daily basis is a false equivalency. Yes, targeting anybody on the basis of race is wrong, obviously. But on the list of race priorities, white people problems are at the bottom. The huge majority of incidents involving white people are the ones where they are doing awful shit to minorities. Think of it this way. Would you rather have an exterminator kill a solitary hornet or the hive hiding in your drywall?
If Oden is sad there are survivors on either side, and thinks protesting in general means you deserve to get your ass kicked (which is the only interpretation I have of what he's posting), then he's entitled to the opinion. Those of us who think America is better than Nazi's and think that protesting Nazi's is worth an ass-kicking (standing up for one's beliefs and all that), have a differing opinion. I can't stress enough that if you are legitimately sad that not enough people died, you probably have no place in this conversation (or in humanity in general). That kind of disgust in humanity is part of the problem: these are countrymen, patriots and they deserve your respect as Americans who contribute and sacrifice. In short, we're all in this together and to ignore that is dangerous to everyone. You don't have to get finger-banged in a Corolla by them, but at least acknowledge their right to exist without a violent death. I can't fathom playing the "but I'm a victim too!" card here. Racism sucks, and it should be opposed. Anywhere, everywhere. I get how there's a lot of white people irritated that every minority has a way to one-up them, and ideally we end up with a system where that shit sincerely doesn't matter. But we're not there yet and until we are, I don't think it's unreasonable to oppose Nazi's and the Goddamned KKK. If it resorts to violence, that's a criminal matter, not a political one. Antifa's wiki page doesn't say shit about Marxism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) I'm not for the commies, either but...well, I'll take that over Nazi's, yes. I'll compare whatever whacky outlier shit they believe to Libertarianism. It has a place on the spectrum, albeit a hotly debated and tenuous (and largely theoretical) one. Genocide and slavery simply do not. They don't. Antifa might embody some weird beliefs, and I'm sure they have a counterpart on the right. It is not Nazism. I get that each side is distasteful, but one is fucking poisonous. That's ultimately the point here: one side is a distasteful but relevant manifestation of beliefs and one is fucking evil and while they are entitled to free speech/their beliefs, it's a dangerous fallacy to equate them with any mainstream political movement. The simplest litmus test here is: just about everyone can get behind the anti-discrimination message of Antifa at some level. You might not, you might not give enough fucks, but it has mainstream appeal: 300 million people voting for that wouldn't necessarily be wrong, in the same vein as fiscal conservatism or libertarianism. Nazi's? Nope...no widespread appeal of the master race, and the enslavement/genocide of lesser beings. Therefore, it's a false equivalence and ultimately a failure of the media narrative. Antifa wasn't the only group there to protest, and yet somehow the choice is either Nazi's or a fringe liberal group. False choice.
You missed the "in jest" part, didn't you? Everything else you say about Antifa is complete bullshit based on the bolded above. Anti-discrimination is NOT what they are about. They are a my way or the highway-type of group. They behave violently to silence opposition. Not just those who are racists but those who disagree with them. Why silence Anne Coulter? Why silence Ben Shapiro? Why silence Milo? They aren't racists, they are conservative and believe a different ideology than Antifa. This behavior is facism. This is the same type of behavior exhibited by the brown shirts leading up to the Nazis, none of you seem to pick up on just how close on the spectrum these two groups are and nothing good seems to come from interacting with either of them/
Do you want to know who also thinks racism against white people is a severe problem and that people's lack of a response to racism against white people invalidates their position on racism in general? The white nationalists who marched into Charlottesville.
This is a bananas story I'd never heard of before. In 1965, US Army soldier went AWOL, then North Korea detained him 40 years Oh shit. Sorry. I didn't do it right let me try again. In 1965, US Army soldier went AWOL, then North Korea detained him 40 years
This is a really stupid comment. Maybe the stupidest one in the nearly 400 pages of this thread, and that's counting everything Nom had posted. "Do you know who also hates rascism against black people?! The Black Panthers." That's how stupid it is. If you want to accuse him of being a Nazi, just go ahead and do it.
I'm just a lowly and dumb teacher, so please forgive me for asking, but are you saying my comment is stupid because it is obvious or that it is stupid because it is untrue?
It's polemic garbage, and it's the exact mirror position the Neo Nazis take. Either you are against racism and bigotry or you aren't. You don't get to cherry pick your outrage ultimately because of your hatred for Trump. Dark skin doesn't make a race or ethnicity sacrosanct and immune for crisis risk when it's warranted. Whether it's the white Neo Nazis or the Black Hebrew Israelites, it doesn't matter. Burying your head in the sand and embracing the racism of low expectations doesn't elevate the soap box.
Call my post polemic garbage if you want, but don't respond with...polemic garbage. This post is more jumbled than a kitchen junk drawer full of low expectation soap. If you think my post in any way, mirrors neo nazi positions on race you don't understand me, neo nazis, or both. Obviously I am against racism and bigotry and don't think there is a race or ethnicity that is sancrosanct. I'm not sure where you're getting where I implied that. Mr. Nuance, you're stripping my point of nuance. I didn't say that identifying anti-white violence automatically made someone a Neo Nazi. I said that trying to put anti-white racism on the same level as racism against minorities and therefore saying people don't really care about racism because if they did they would care about that more is what white nationalists do. I think Mark Twain said something like "if you find yourself in the majority, pause and reconsider." The point of my post was that if you find yourself thinking about race like a white nationalist, pause and reconsider...well, do more than reconsider, change your beliefs. Do you disagree with me? Is anti-white racism a severe problem in this country? Is it equally as pervasive as racism against minorities?
It's because when you say something and aren't quite clear, you're a fucking idiot. When he says something that isn't quite clear, he just needs to clarify, you misinterpreted, cause you're a fucking idiot. Ahh, the fundamental attribution error. So much of it in this thread.
No. But the points that have been made multiple times was the reflexive outrage, while warranted, is tainted with disingenuity when it's one event versus another based on where it falls on the political spectrum. It's not a matter of measuring and comparing severity. If Harvard had a "whites-only" commencement, do you think the reaction would less severe than the "blacks-only" one they had? I could care less what Harvard does. Or Evergreen, where students stalked and threatened a white professor. Or Berkeley where any speaker (liberals included) have to have armed security just speak. But the incongruity between each event feels heavily weighted by political bias rather than purely an outrage in response to beta Nazi retards, who are almost universally hated anyway. I think the bedrock which we agree on is that minorities have had it far worse from white people than the opposite (and still do). There's no disputing that. But you may want to reread your original post because it certainly reads like a comparison to being a nationalist whether you intended it to or not. You and Toytoy and many others on both sides keep talking about levels and severity. I'm saying you're all wrong because it's true but irrelevant. It needs to be dealt with the same way every time or it breeds resentment, which is what has started happening.
You missed the "mostly" part, so...your entire post is meaningless but not? Anne Coulter, Milo & Ben Shapiro are not "silenced". Dude, they got protested and as figures that court controversy, that shouldn't be surprising. The protests were bullshit, I grant you, but no group has the right nor ability to impinge on free speech. What you're trying to make equivalent is "Nazi's did this and Antifa did this so Antifa must be like Nazi's", which is meaningless. I'm talking about the difference in what they stand for. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa_(United_States) This is what they are about. "My way or the highway-type group" is meaningless conjecture on your part. When they behave violently, they become criminal and not representative of the political spectrum. I am not condoning violence. I'm not defending Antifa, God knows they deserve criticism. What I am saying is they are not comparable to fucking Nazi's. It's definitively not the same thing. You can argue what exactly fits within fascism, and that's fine. I am saying that one side of this debate has foregone part of their humanity that believes in "all men are created equal" and simply do not have a place in our political spectrum. The other side is combating discrimination and that does. And are you SERIOUSLY arguing that Antifa is as violent or oppressive as the Nazi's? The group that murdered MILLIONS of people, invented the curb stomp and is famous around the world for violent skinheads? I'll wait for American History Antifa, and the History Channel to run episodes of "The SS of Tumblr". The issue with this is it creates a false balance in your mind. If you think the far-right is the Goddamned KKK, you're wrong. The KKK have no right to political influence based on their disagreement with the "all men are created equal" tenet. Then you think their counterpoint on the far-left is Antifa. The reality is Antifa is far-left, but by equivocating them with the KKK, they seem dramatically more radical and evil, which isn't balanced. Then you think the moderate right is much further centered than it really is. That's the problem....if you believe the Nazi/KKK/White Supremacists are part of the political spectrum on the far right, then the actual far right (think Mike Pence or Ted Cruz's Christian theocracy, for example) is a lot more palatable because it feels less extreme, which again distorts the reality of who and what the country is. It's using a poisonous ideology to push the country further red, which is a mistake
Glad to see you've supplemented your expertise in being a dickhead with corresponding expertise in race relations. Oh well that's not true. You can also be a mealy-mouthed centrist who is so invested in the balance fallacy that he rushes to "well both sides are bad" racial issues without even a passing nod to the historical context in which those issues occur. Can we talk about the real racism now, which is the fact that there's no White History Month?
I literally acknowledged it in my previous post and then a few before that when I stated how Neo Nazis/white supremacists are a uniquely dangerous threat. Are you planning to catch up or just chime in with your usual, "white people aren't allowed to comment on racial issues" cliche?