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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    Honorary TiBette

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    And you undermined that acknowledgment by saying "it needs to be dealt with the same way every time" which is frankly a stupid conclusion. Going from "white supremacists are uniquely dangerous" to "Whether it's the white Neo Nazis or the Black Hebrew Israelites, it doesn't matter" is an aggressively poor line of logic. I assumed you would realize that that was my critique which was probably stupid on my part.

    If white people weren't allowed to comment on racial issues, the last 20 pages of this thread wouldn't exist because uh, you see too much of anybody else around here? Weird coincidence, I bet.
     
  2. downndirty

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    It's remarkable that the KKK, Neo-Nazi's and white supremacists are in the forefront of the news (and our culture) in the past few days. I mean, they've had rallies and protests before, and it failed to get national attention (or a counter-protest).

    Is this a media failure for acknowledging these fuckheads to the level they are getting Presidential attention?

    Also, Baltimore yanked all the Confederate statues overnight...no fanfare, ending a pointlessly long debate. Like it or not, that's leadership, kids. Making the call and opening yourself up to criticism, then saying "If it's that bad, vote for someone who'll put them back".

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/ma...s-md-ci-monuments-removed-20170816-story.html

    My complaint is that this was done using the threat of violence as an excuse. If it needed to be done, then do it, but using angry mobs as an excuse is politically cowardly (even in Baltimore, which for those of you who don't know is named "Mob City" because it's inhabitants do enjoy a good riot).
     
  3. Juice

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    Well the mods decided 6 months ago we would just ban anyone with a skin tone darker than printer paper.

    As far as centrism, its not a "well you're side is bad too, sooo.." argument, in fact I stated the opposite of it. The point is, addressing political violence with political violence makes things worse, not better. Thats not the same as saying minority cant defend itself against white supremacists with physical force if they need to.

    But not all of the violence has been racially based, some of it is pure political ideology. But regardless of underlying motivation, there are two opposite extremist groups that are committing acts of political violence justified by the actions of the other. Now white supremacists certainly created the tense racial climate we are in now. However, on the larger scale, the acts of violence (not just racial) are getting worse. Hell, there was an assassination attempt on a GOP congressman a month ago by a white guy. Now these neo-Nazis/alt-righters are on the march because they feel like an aggrieved party. That goes back and forth between them and Antifa or anarchists, some fringe elements of BLM or whomever. It wouldnt matter if they solely acted to beat the fuck out of the KKK every time they popped up, but that isnt happening. Other people are getting caught in the cross-fire. How bad do things have to get? Does anyone share responsibility for that escalation?

    I do not understand why that is such a controversial question. Its perfectly reasonable. But its being responded to as if its saying, "Well black people should just stop doing things that upset the KKK/neo-Nazis."
     
  4. Trakiel

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    This seems nonsensical to me. If you're acknowledging there are different levels of severity doesn't that necessarily imply that there should be a difference in how it's addressed? That's like telling a doctor it's wrong to offer different treatments to someone with a cold and someone with a gunshot wound.
     
  5. Aetius

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    The fact that Baltimore, the largest city in a state that fought for the Union, had Confederate statues in the first place is an absurdity.
     
  6. D26

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    I see confederate flags in Indiana with slogans like "heritage not hate," which is just astonishing. It was all I could do to not stop and say, "Mother fucker, what side do you think Indiana was on? What confederate heritage do you, someone born and raised in bumfuck Indiana, just like your parents, have?"

    So the President saying what, quite frankly, many people in this thread have said (classic both-sides-ism, the counter-protestors are at fault for counter-protesting), and having David Duke and others praise him and say the President is letting them off the hook? That has nothing to do with emboldening the white supremacy movement? Or how about all the white supremacists on his staff? If this whole episode wasn't proof that Bannon is still playing Trump's puppet master, I don't know what is.

    They say they're under attack from the powers that be? The President of the United States has done all but say "yeah those fucking uppity n*ggers and libtards had it coming." What powers that be are they under attack from, exactly, because as far as I can tell, they ARE the powers that be. How the fuck else can a dude drive into a crowd and have people in the White House and this very board say "well, it's those peoples' fault for being there."

    And before someone says "point out where someone says that," I'll just remind everyone you've spent 6 pages arguing that the counter-protestors are partially to blame for the rise in violence, hence you are arguing if the counter protestors weren't there, then the attack would not have happened. It's not exactly a huge logical leap, although you'll deny you implied it. Cognitive dissonance and all.
     
  7. Frebis

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    Some really seemed upset when they were getting doxxed. That's something you say, right?
     
  8. toytoy88

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    Including people that weren't even there.
     
  9. Kubla Kahn

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    See now there is a form of non violent resistance I can get behind. The accidental misidentified people* not withstanding, this isn't destroying Paula Deen 30 years after she dropped the n bomb at a robbery trial. This is putting social pressure on people that outed themselves publicly to holding truly racist beliefs.




    *(my phone just suggested penis after misidentified)
     
  10. Trakiel

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    Let me get this straight:

    1. Don't bother talking or engaging with white supremacists because them being comfortable being called neo-nazis means your words aren't going to have any effect on them.
    2. Don't protest against them because that just brings attention to them.
    3. Don't be violent against them because that doesn't solve the problem and makes you just as bad as them.

    So then what else is left? Just ignore them and hope they go away by themselves? Kind of how Jim Crow just went away by itself, right? We don't need to do anything because racism will just solve itself!
     
  11. Nettdata

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    Yes. Exactly this.

    If it's ok to be violent against them, what level of violence is acceptable? Can you go and shoot them?
     
  12. D26

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    Yeah. If you show up to counter-protest, or god forbid defend yourself, it's your own fault if you get mowed down by a car.
     
  13. Crown Royal

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    No. Just cars. And flagpoles. And medieval D&D shields. And pepper spray at point blank. All this unnecessary horror is happening.

    Anybody who would stand in the street waving ACTUAL Nazi Party flags and wearing Klan gear are expecting a fight, wanting a fight. The guy who razed them with the baritone a while back did it right. No violence, no threats, because if you give them what they want it's a victory.

    Best solution in my book is to stay home. Mow the lawn. Just let them scream into the void and not be heard. There's just too many people these days who want to play Real Life Internet and make sure their opinion is the one that actually matters. I mean Jesus Christ, I never thought I'd see white supremacy given any sort of social clout by the media. I feel like I'm watching "Banshee" all over again.
     
    #7053 Crown Royal, Aug 16, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2017
  14. Nettdata

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    Where did I ever say this? NOBODY FUCKING SAID THIS! Why are you making shit up? I'm genuinely curious about what part of your brain makes the connection and assumptions it does based on what was written.

    Stop making shit up to be angry about... of course it's not right, and the guy is going to fucking rot in jail because of it.

    And THIS is why we can't have any discussion around stuff... half of you aren't here to have a discussion, you're here to stamp your foot and demand that you're right, and anything that comes close to affecting that results in you throwing a tantrum.

    I can't get over how fucking intellectually dishonest some of you are... it's like arguing with children.

    And you wonder why shit is as fucked up as it is.
     
  15. Nettdata

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    Banned for a week.

    As of now, we're no longer tolerating fools.

    If you can't even attempt to see the point that is trying to be made, and cannot respond to it politely and intellectually honestly, then you're being removed from the discussion.

    All you see on the "news" are talking heads yelling shit at each other and not actually discussing the subject at hand, but that doesn't mean that it's normal or acceptable. When you do that, you immediately discredit yourself as being worth having a "discussion" with, so people just stop, and nothing is gained.

    If you aren't willing to do that, then fuck right out of the conversation and don't look back.

    If that "offends you", let me know, so that I can be sure to tell you how much I don't give a shit.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    This seems like an excellent, positive step towards dealing with the Neo-Nazis: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...te-neo-nazi-terrorist-organization-story.html

    If they are deemed terrorists, or illegal in some other way, then shit can be legally done about it. Lock them up, send them to Guantanimo Bay, etc.

    Like I said before, until such time as things are changed so that what they are doing is deemed illegal, and not just distasteful and immoral, then they have a right to do it. So make it illegal through due process, not just mob rules.
     
  17. toytoy88

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    What they did with the Nazis back home was wait for them to fuck up and then the ACLU sued them into oblivion. A car backfired going by their compound and their drunk guards returned fire. They got like a $6M judgement against them and their whole compound was only worth $250K or so.
     
  18. Kubla Kahn

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    I'm wondering when they'll start banning people from wearing the riot gear to protest? I'm not sure it's a expression of speech when you're trying to beat the shit out other people.

    I'm not sure why the police aren't tear gassing the whole lot when they start beating and macing each other.
     
  19. xrayvision

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    Theres supposedly like 9 more protests scheduled. We will see if the cops provide any sort of barrier to keep people from dying. The nazis would love nothing more than to be attacked by counter protesters and a whole lot of people would love nothing more than beat down a few.
     
  20. toytoy88

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    I think it's down to 8 now, the one in the Silicon Valley was cancelled because of security concerns.