So if I walk around in Alhambra, and get my ass beat because I'm white... that's not racism? Because funny story... about 8 years ago I was in LA for a conference, and the hotel room I was booked into was in Alhambra. I was walking a half block to the corner 7/11 and a cop car pulled up beside me, and the cop politely, and uncomfortably, asks me what I'm doing in that part of town? I explained, and he basically said, "don't take this the wrong way, but you really might want to consider moving to a different hotel in a different part of town." It was then that I really noticed that I was the only white guy around, and the cops were worried that I was going to get mugged or have something bad happen. Why? Because I was white. I also don't get to check "are you a minority" on the job application or school enrolment forms. I'm not saying that it's anywhere near the racism that other people have had to experience, but you cannot tell me that just because it's not "as bad", that it's not racism. I was discriminated against or put in harm because of my race. What else would you call that? Because according to the widely accepted definition of racism, that's exactly what it is.
Maybe I'm reading too far into what seem to be some of the underlying assumptions here because the false equivalence of WHAT ABOUT RACISM AGAINST WHITE PEOPLE is so stark, but if we can all agree on what I said then I'm happy. Okay. And it's been said on the board before in other places.
So you were in a predominantly black area and a cop took the time to check in on you and make sure you were safe. A black person is in a predominantly white area and a cop rolls up on them... chances are it's not to check in and make sure they're getting home safely.
And nowhere does it call BML a hate group. Again, you're reading something, and then interpreting it as something completely different than what was written. You are putting your own huge spin on things and claiming them like they are fact. I suggest you up the reading comprehension a bit.
The cop suggested I move because a bunch of people were probably going to fuck me up because I wasn't of their race and I was in their area. The cop wasn't being racist, some people in the neighbourhood were. Or what else would you call it if a black or hispanic group beat up a white guy in their neighbourhood for being white?
Remember when Trakiel said this? Let's just revisit it because he is clearly spelling it out more eloquently than I am.
Are you being pedantic or stupid? If someone says that the group says racist things, isn't the implication then that the group is racist? Isn't racism hateful? Reading comprehension indeed. Either way, you don't even fucking disagree with me right? You don't think that BLM is a racist hate group? So why the fuck harp on about it? Why not just ignore my post?
Maybe it would really help to understand that there are many, many aspects to racism, and that they have historically applied differently to different people. But that doesn't mean that it's still not racism. For instance... there is a clinical definition of death. If a friend of mine dies by slowly being chewed apart by a wood chipper, while I die in my sleep, it doesn't mean that we're both not dead. All it means is that he had a way, way fucking worse death than I did. He can't just say, "I suffered more, so therefore I'm dead, but you're not." Sure, his death was fucking hideous, mine was tranquil... but we both died. I don't think ANYONE is arguing about the absolute horrors of racism that have, and still are happening, or saying that it's on par (generally speaking). But you can't just discount other legitimate, albeit less substantial instances of racism just because it doesn't meet some arbitrary and undefined level. Every justification of doing so add a bunch of qualifiers to the definition of racism. If you want to say "defining racism as an institution" as the context within which we're talking, then fine... but don't just re-define the generic term of "racism" to only mean that... because it doesn't.
And I think that using the term "racism" to describe anything experienced by white people minimizes the actual experiences of racism by people who aren't white so it, to me, always refers to institutionalized, systemic racism. In my educational, professional and social spheres, that is how that word is used. The idea of any white people claiming racism is at best tone deaf.
I find it very telling that we now have to ascribe some arbitrary degree of being a victim as a threshold for the definition of a word to be considered valid.
Edit: On second thought I'm not getting drawn into another argument like that. As far as my posts were concerned, my issue with BLM obviously isn't about them being a hate group. I'm not sure the people that label them as such are entirely crazy to do so, although I personally don't. If you're actually confused as to what I was talking about Gravy, go back and read the posts I made. My actual disagreement with them was explained, several times.
Is there more to this story that you're not telling? Because based on what you're saying here since you weren't actually beat up or accosted by any people of color, no, you did not experience any prejudice, discrimination, or racism. By your own description, "It was then that I really noticed that I was the only white guy around" you were surrounded by people of color, and none of them actually mugged you. So tell me again how exactly you were discriminated against.
Nope nope nope. Racism, prejudice and discrimination all mean different things. White people experience racism, and as long as we're making sweeping statements that have no meaning outside of specific individual anecdotes, I would argue said racism is different. It doesn't mean it's better or worse, because in the worst kind of sense it's susceptible to individual exemption. It all sucks and it should be eliminated. If I get treated differently based on the criteria that I'm an adult, straight, white male, (EVEN IF IT'S BETTER TREATMENT...I DIDN'T ASK FOR PRIVILEGE) that's racist and it needs to be eliminated. To say it only flows in one direction is misleading, and further perpetuates a sort of victimhood. Am I a victim of racism in the same vein as "pulled over for driving while black", or "we have enough Asians with your test scores at this school?" No. It's much more, "we can't allow any more white men on the team and still hit our diversity quota" (I have experienced this, and it's infuriating). It sucks, regardless of application, and it needs to be snuffed out. I was in a job interview last week, with 5 people on the panel, not a single one of them white and I got absolutely crucified because I didn't "blend well culturally", and my direct experience was "more than 5 years ago, so it's hardly relevant now". Really? You sure it doesn't have something to do with the fact that I'm a white guy trying to work in the wealthiest majority-black county in the US? It happens to white people, too. I have paid "gringo" price for more shit than I care to admit. Is it on the same level as "let me see your green card, spic"? Of course not, and no one would argue it is. It's still fucked up, and we need to collectively work as a culture to eliminate it. The best method to do that is to engage with dissimilar people, actively listen and respect and value them as people. Saying stupid shit like, "it's impossible to be racist to white people" is a step in the opposite direction, in my humble opinion. The elimination of racism means it's fair, for better or worse. The elimination of racism doesn't mean promoting victimhood or establishing different criteria for different races. Part of the issue with racism in this country is we stick our head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist where it clearly does, pretend that it doesn't apply to some groups when it clearly does, and cite individual examples like Obama, or Lyanna Wen, or Tim Cook, or whoever the fuck is the CEO of Deloitte & Microsoft as if to say, "Not all (Insert minority group membership here)!" and then postulate that it's to blame on culture or the individual didn't work hard enough to "overcome". The worst thing we can do to solve racism is create more division along arbitrary lines like "you can't discriminate against X people". This is the precise formula we are trying to end.
The cop basically told me that I should go stay somewhere else because I was white and it was dangerous for me to be there in that non-white neighbourhood. It freaked me out, and I then checked out and moved to another hotel in a different part of town. Again, I was told by a cop that I was in danger if I stayed there, because I was white. My question was/is, if that's not me being affected by racism, then what is it called? Again, it's a small, relatively minor example compared to others, but it's still, by definition, racism.
So, assuming (and since no one actually accosted or mugged you, it's still only an assumption) you disregarded the cop and got mugged because you were white, I'd call it prejudice. And probably a hate crime. Also, to repeat myself, just because I wouldn't call it racism wouldn't make it acceptable. And I wouldn't call it racism because of what I said before: In the US, there's never been a cultural and institutional force of people of color acting against white people. Because of that key difference I (and many others) find it useful to draw a distinction between racism and prejudice. Yes, my argument is a deliberate redefinition of the commonly held definition of racism; I'm not claiming otherwise.
I don't if I consider that racism so much as: "Law enforcement official sagely advises prime target of mugging to avoid area where they are very likely to be mugged." Are you being told that because you are white? Sure. But that's really not denying you opportunity. Unless you consider it an opportunity to be a victim of violent crime. Being white displays affluence and privilege. After all, the common caricature of runaway greed and affluence is the old white man, not old (insert other random ethnicity) man. You are more likely to be a victim of those crimes if you are perceived to be a higher value target than not. The white dude is likelier to be higher value (in most people's eyes anyway) that anyone else. As a white dude myself, I know that there are areas of Chicago where I would have a bad time if I decided to take a casual stroll through. I could try to scream racism/prejudice when something (inevitably) bad happens to me. Those cries will likely be drowned out by people laughing at what I dipshit I was to go to places like that.
In my mind, there isn't any comparison of levels of racism of whites against blacks vs. blacks against whites. (yes, I know there are other races, but these are the largest population and loudest voiced ones) But, that doesn't mean it doesn't happen at all. I thought DnD said it correctly: But when you say are you also saying that the NAACP is not a cultural and institutional force? Or, are you saying you're not familiar with them acting against white people?
Compared to things like Jim Crow, redlining, and the war on drugs? It's not even close. How could you even make that comparison?
Oh, no, you're right, not even close. I am not making that comparison at all. My point was there is a difference between something not existing at all, and not being on the same level. As I stated in the very first thing I wrote, the two cannot be compared. If you have $1000 in your hand and I have a dollar. You can't say I don't have any money. You can say I don't have much money, and you can say I don't know what it's like to have lots of money, but to say I don't have any money would be factually incorrect. No, I can't fill my car with gas and buy some concert tickets and a fancy meal, but I can get a Snickers bar. Which is more than someone with no money whatsoever. So, now I was able to use my dollar to buy a Snickers, and I have some idea of what having money can do. I don't yet understand what it's like to be able to eat out every night, but do have a little understanding of the power of money.