Generally first offense there is 2-3 days in a stay in diversionary program. Basically spend a weekend in a hotel that is repurposed for it and you are locked in at the end of the night. You do group meetings with the other people. Now on your second and beyond there is jail time but it's not outrageous time unless you really fuck up. Obviously this guy was on probation (I believe) he was in for a lot more jail time than just the drunk driving charge. The whole "put him in a cab/drive them home" thing used to be more common. Today it is still part of an officer's discretion but is actively trained against and frowned upon by departments. It's all liability liability liability. My cop friend said there is too much risk of the person having another set of keys, turning right back around and going back to pick up their car. He's staked out a car and busted the person coming back after taking them home himself. If that person goes on to cause an accident with injuries or death? And it's found out the police department had contact with the drunk driver before hand and let them go? You reasonably going to say you'd take that risk if you were the police? It's the litigious society we've created for ourselves. You are also talking about split second decision making in a dangerous evolving situation. Now we have countless hours to discern every minutia of every aspect of the total event sitting behind a keyboard safe in our homes. This cop went from talking cordially to him to wrestling, to punched in the face, to having his partner tased and concussed (according to partner's lawyer), then having a weapon discharged at his face in a foot chase in what a ten second time span? Heat of the moment, absolutely reasonable he feared for his life. In normal times he'd have been rightfully no billed by a grand jury.
That's the way it works over here. It also costs a shit ton of money towards lawyers, fines and ignition interlock device for the offender to keep limited driving privileges. They don't call it the drunk tank for nothing. There is no doubt in my mind that our DUI laws make streets safer. I don't drink and drive, ever, so I have no reason to think the laws are excessive.
Yep, here you’re completely fucked on your first offense. Hell, jail time would probably be easier compared to the insurance rate hike, the fines, the ignition lock device, etc. I have to be really careful because having a CDL my legal limit is .04 even in my own vehicle. I think it’s a crock of shit, but that’s the way it is. So when I go out for a couple beers, I have a very finite amount nursed over a longer period of time. Then I switch to water. Even the bartenders know, Walt only has X amount and then water. So the people on TV asking why the cops couldn’t just put him an Uber and send him hone are overlooking the fact that a crime was committed. Unless you’re gonna erase DWI laws, no one gets that free pass, regardless of race. ( And yes I recognize that my odds of getting shot are significantly less due to my lower melanin content )
so when he got the taser in the first place, he had both cops on him. And he got the taser while fighting them both off. It's reasonable to assume that he could fight off just one if he had immobilized the other one, since he had already done so. Also, when he first got the taser, who's to say he wasn't going for the cop's gun and just happened to get the taser instead? When he fired the taser, did the cop know it was a taser or could the cop have thought it was a gun? In the heat of the moment, did the cop think he grabbed his gun instead and that's what he was shooting him with? Further, cops are trained to use one level of force above that which is being used against them. Someone hits you, you go for less lethal (not non-lethal, as there's always that chance). Someone presents a less-lethal like a taser or a bat -- depending on how they are using the bat at the time -- then you go lethal. Someone presents lethal, you use lethal too. I'm not saying I agree with all of these, but they are reasonable under the circumstances and they are some of many points that will be brought up in court in the officer's defense. All they have to do is make the jurors (though I would go for a judge if I were him, given the circumstances) believe that there was reasonable doubt in the prosecution's claims. "Was the defendant in reasonable fear for his life?" If the answer is yes, then it was a lawful self defense and no felony-murder. As to the other ones, once the felony-murder goes away, the other ones kinda hinge on that so they'll likely fall too. I anticipate him being completely exonerated. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, though I believe that's what's going to happen under the current legal system. Then he will have to change his name and go into hiding for a very, very long time.
yeah my bad, law school has been a second. either way, I think the charges fall due to the cop being in reasonable fear for his life. I’m curious if brooks’ prior criminal history, the cops knowledge of that and fear of how he would react again might come into play. Dude spent over a year behind bars, and if he was arrested he was certainly going back there again. Imo it’s why he got violent (the alcohol certainly played a part in that poor decision making).
My take is basically, look if you want to gamble and assume the drunk lunatic is going to leave you alone after tazing you then go ahead and make that gamble when it's you. Fuck off trying to tell somebody else to be that reckless with their own life.
Exactly. And also to kinda state the obvious: if it were not for the current environment with protests and the like, no way that cop is getting charged. Yes, they should be charged more often, better training and in general just quit their shit. But this is not one of those cases. Two months ago the headline would read "Drunk man steals taser from cop and uses it on him, gets shot." Play stupid games....
What annoys me is I really don't want to sit here and defend the cops right now, but of course we can't just move forward like reasonable people. We have to be held up weighing the views of irrational, overly emotional jackasses. I really hope this doesn't end up like the gun debate where it just gets deadlocked because two extremes refuse to give an inch so as a result people just yell at and demonize each other while fuck all actually gets done.
The Floyd case parallels the Jonny Gammage case in Pittsburgh in 1995, it was a big story locally. No police were convicted in a case where Gammage was asphyxiated by police pressure while on the ground after being stopped for driving erratically. The results in Floyd may be different partially because of the publicity in the Floyd case but it’s not easy to convict a cop. “The car that Gammage was driving, a Jaguar, belonged to NFL player Ray Seals, Gammage's cousin.[1] Seals was not present. He had loaned the car to Gammage who was visiting from his hometown of Syracuse, New York. According to court testimony, Lieutenant Milton Mulholland of the Brentwood Police Department attempted to stop Gammage as he drove northbound on State Route 51 after noticing that Gammage had an expired Florida registration. Gammage did not stop for more than a mile and a half (leaving Brentwood and entering the City of Pittsburgh limits). Gammage had repeatedly braked his car but would not stop or pull off the roadway even though he passed multiple parking lots and side streets he could have used. Mulholland called for back up suspecting that Gammage was not going to stop and may be up to something other than driving an unregistered vehicle. At this time Officer John Vojtas called back stating he was on his way from the other side of Brentwood. Whitehall Borough Sergeant Keith Henderson, who was closer to Mulholland than Vojtas, called back to Mulholland that he was close and would head his way. As Sgt. Keith Henderson of the Whitehall Police Department arrived on the scene he observed Lt Mulholland standing at the driver's side window of the vehicle speaking to the lone driver later identified as Gammage. Witnessing Gammage talking on his cellular telephone inside the vehicle, Henderson shone his flashlight into Gammage's car and drew his weapon. Officer John Vojtas of Brentwood arrived next, and with his weapon drawn, had a loud discussion with Gammage which resulted in Gammage exiting the car, cellular telephone and datebook in hand. Vojtas knocked the items to the ground using his flashlight. When he raised his flashlight, Gammage reciprocated by knocking the flashlight from Vojtas's hand, prompting Vojtas and Henderson to tackle Gammage and wrestle him to the ground. Mulholland joined in the altercation, helping the other two men pin the resisting Gammage to the ground. Officer Michael Albert of the Baldwin Police Department, who had also arrived in response to the backup request, approached and attempted to assist in handcuffing him. Officer Shawn Patterson of the Whitehall Police Department also became involved and joined Vojtas, Mulholland and Henderson in holding Gammage down as one or more of the men struck him with flashlights. Gammage was eventually handcuffed, at which time only the two Whitehall officers, Henderson and Patterson, remained in contact with him, one sitting on Gammage's legs, another holding his upper body. Within seven minutes, Gammage lay dead. The coroner's report showed his cause of death to be asphyxiation due to pressure applied to the chest and neck.[2] His last words were alleged to be "Keith, Keith, I'm 31. I'm only 31.“
Well, if nothing else I think we will see cops like that stop keeping their jobs. It's not much, and it's not what needs to be done, but it is something, I guess.
My 26 year old ultra-liberal daughter thinks all police are bad. I’ve had my issues with cops when I was young where she hasn’t and I’ve tried to get her to understand that not all of anything is anything and that her personal experiences with cops are likely to be them looking out for her.
I still think the simplest and easiest solution for a start is body cams on all cops. It's become more common with improved results. At my job there are cameras everywhere all the time while I work. If I, or anyone else fucks up, it's on camera. No one gets to turn them off on a whim, no matter what your title is. I see no reason a cop is above the same scrutiny. The same is true of a lot of jobs.
The funny thing about body cameras is they have a peculiar habit of turning themselves off just as the footage gets good.
Then they just take them off, and say that it came off in the pursuit/ struggle/ etc. This has been documented before. Shitty cops are always going to find ways to be shitty cops, and as long as they have all the protections that they do, they will continue to operate. PERIOD. They need to suffer real consequences when they fuck up. Get rid of qualified immunity. Stop having good cops/ departments cover up for shitty ones. I know that this will never happen, by the way. The police are gangs/ a tribe/ whatever you want to call it. That's part of human nature, and it's not going away.
Yeah, they can, but I think at a point it's almost like admitting guilt. How are you going to say it came off during a struggle without any footage to support that? They need something like a 2 strike rule. First time you remove it you're suspended. Second time, go get another job.
Did anyone catch that protestors in San Fransisco tore down statues of US Grant and Francis Scott Key? I'm guessing the reason was that they were old white men and therefore evil.
I'm not suggesting that there aren't consequences, here you lose your license, get massive fines and all the rest of it. Most of the time though you aren't put in a cell.
Oh I knew you weren’t. But there’s a lot of people that are suggesting that’s what police should have done in the Atlanta case. Here you’re processed, get a court date and then you get to wake someone up to come get you. After that, you don’t pay once, you pay for years.
That's one of the things I find most insane about the system, you can be looked up awaiting trial and spend months in a cell before that happens, even if you're found to be innocent of those charges you're life is effectively fucked because you've lost your job and in a financial hole. I can't speak for the Australian system as the most I've had is a few traffic fines and a public urination one when absolutely fucked drunk but I've been given a ride home by police both in Aus and back home in NZ after being picked up blackout drunk. In both cases I was a complete mess, once I was tresspassing somewhere and the other I was walking down the main street of a town, no shoes, no shirt, soaking wet and covered in vomit. I promise in both cases if I was Maori or Aboriginal I would have ended up in a cell for at least the night instead of at home courtesy of a wagon.