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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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  2. Nettdata

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    To everyone here... if you are being harassed or similar via DM or rep, let me know. I will not stand for it.

    If you just get your feelings hurt because someone didn't agree with you, yeah, tough shit... but if someone is being aggressively disrespectful, let me know, and I'll bring it to the mods for review, and we'll take action.

    I don't give a shit about the misc comments directed at the mods between others, or you talking shit about other people you don't like amongst yourselves... not interested.

    But if someone is talking abusive or highly disrespectful shit directly at you, again, let me or another mod know.
     
  3. Fiveslide

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    Apparently this guy actually posted about a Bubba Recovery rope, an actual product way older than this situation. They've amended the article. It was an attempt at humor and absolutely still racist, but doesn't seem as terrible as if he had posted a random rope and called it a bubba rope like the media originally left the public to deduce.

    Most people, myself include, have no idea there is a product called a Bubba recovery rope and just assumed this guy was posting nooses on marketplace.
     
  4. Crown Royal

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  5. Jimmy James

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    This phrase has always bothered me because I've never heard the phrase "white on white" or "Asian on Asian" crime. I've always been under the impression that crime was crime, regardless of what race committed it. Crime generally gets committed against people who are in your neighborhood, so it stands to reason that the perpetrators would look a lot like their victims. So why use "black on black"?

    Saying that black people don't actually care about black people because of crime where black people live, feels disingenuous to me. It looks like a deflection away from what black people and quite a lot of white people are actually protesting against, which is unchecked police brutality. Especially since that police brutality is killing a disproportionate amount of black people compared to white people.
     
  6. Revengeofthenerds

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    ER Frequent Flyer Platinum Member

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    because that exact type of community violence is what we need to be most concerned with. Sure, police brutality is a major issue, but it is not THE major issue. It is not THE largest threat against minorities — their own communities are. Statistically, you are most likely to be killed by someone you know. Why aren’t we working on fixing that as well?
     
  7. Jimmy James

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    Let's say you're a black person and witness another black person commit just a minor crime. What are you supposed to do when your only option is to call the same group of people who have very publicly killed a bunch of black people with almost zero repercussions? You grew up watching cops fuck with people in your neighborhood, and saw cops across the country killing your people for no reason bad enough to warrant being shot. Would it be understandable that you might have some trust issues with helping cops arrest people in your neighborhood, even if they deserve it? Why would you trust a justice system that sentences people that look like you to disproportionately longer terms, and is full of instances of prosecutorial misconduct and evidence planting? Assuming you were to testify anyway, do you really think cops are going to come running to a black neighborhood full of people that hate them for past brutality cases, because one black person gets the shit kicked out of them or even killed for snitching? Even if there are no physical repercussions, there's definitely social ones, starting with you and now your family being ostracized from your neighborhood. Would you want to live in a neighborhood where your kids are getting bullied because of something you did? If you're a black person living in a black community, chances are pretty good you're close to the poverty line, so moving is not an option.

    Given all of those circumstances, there's no wonder why crime rates tend to be higher in black and minority neighborhoods. For most white people, there isn't any hesitation when it comes to calling the cops. That is understandable, because cops treat white people differently than they do black people. Asking black people to trust cops to do their job would be to ask black people to pretend that every single awful thing every cop, judge, prosecutor and legislator has ever done to black people never happened. Think about the sheer number of those awful things. Then think about how horrific those awful things were, like Emmitt Till, Black Wall Street being burned down, and on and on. Is it right that white people ask black people to just forget all those heinous things ever happened just so they get to have a justice system that is still full of people that hate them?

    When white people ask black people to stop black on black crime, they are essentially asking black people to just work harder against a justice system that has historically worked against them. When black people do try and fail, white people get to put the blame on black people for not trying hard enough. Then white people get to conveniently ignore that they were the ones that caused black people to fail in the first place, what with them being the majority of the cops, judges prosecutors and legislators.

    Perhaps it's time to stop making black people push the rock of inequality up a hill while others either idly stand by or actively push back.
     
  8. Aetius

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  9. Juice

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    Anytime I hear a white person say, “All lives matter,” all I hear is, “I want attention too.”

    As far as that twitter thread, that guy goes at great lengths to avoid addressing the actual issue that a black person is far more likely experience violence at the hands of another black person than a white person (but black-on-black crime has been steadily declining since 2005). However, he could have just argued up front that it’s completely irrelevant to the point of addressing police brutality against black people anyway. But he writes for The Root, so there ya go.
     
  10. Aetius

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    I'm mostly referring to the point about how much effort the black community actually puts into addressing crime; how many programs they work for and how many volunteer hours they put in, etc. This idea that crime is just "accepted" is a fallacy.
     
  11. Kubla Kahn

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    Did I just shit myself?

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    But the unarmed killing of blacks by the police is in the dozens nationwide, all together with armed suspects it’s about 200 a year. Black on black homicides is 4-6k a year. Order of magnitudes more. They don’t burn down their neighborhoods for that. It’s the huge disconnect a lot of white people dont understand. Then you get the hyperbolic statements that police are hunting blacks and that they can’t call the police and have to tell their children they have a good chance of getting killed at a traffic stop. When the hard numbers are anything but that. As far as being murdered statistically black on black should be a far greater concern.

    And I’m willing to understand what their feelings towards the police issue. Perceptions make reality. I don’t cite these numbers to obfuscate or argue changes don’t need to happen but it is a huge disconnect that stops a lot of people.

    Again things I support and would lobby my lawmakers for:

    Diverting police funds towards mental health centers
    Reworking police qualified immunity
    Demilitarization of the police and banning the transfer of military equipment to police
    Banning the box on employment forms so ex cons have a shot at making a living
    Decriminalizing drugs and legalizing weed

    This isn’t an exhaustive list. There is a helluva lot of overlap on what both sides want. How do you get there without the turning off the other side with stuff like “black people are being hunted by police”?
     
  12. Zach

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    https://www.nytimes.com/2020/06/26/us/politics/russia-afghanistan-bounties.html

    Pretty big allegations here
     
  13. Aetius

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  14. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Welcome back, CCCP.
     
  15. NatCH

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    No problem, it's just like Reagan's position regarding Russia...well, the first half of it, anyway.
     
  16. Crown Royal

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    ....not to mention Iran-Contra.

    ...to the people on here more familiar with American law, Iran-Contra WAS technically high treason, was it not?
     
  17. Jimmy James

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    The thing is that the slogan "black lives matter" was never meant as something to be said just on it's own. It's a lot easier to say "black lives matter" and being able to put that slogan on signs and stuff instead of "Those that are most responsible for adjudicating justice must always remember that black lives matter, because it is clear that they mostly do not. Examples of this include cops killing black people at a disproportionate rate, and longer sentences for black people than white people."

    It isn't the fault of black people that some white people added "more than white people" to a slogan that was never meant to be taken in a way that denotes black supremacy. If that's what people are doing, then maybe they need to educate themselves on what exactly black people are protesting so they put things into the correct context.
     
  18. ODEN

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    I agree with a lot of you all, the white lives matter and all lives matter spouted by white people is an irritant. Perhaps, though, we could alter course. What if the movement becamse ABLM? "All Black Lives Matter." What a refreshing thought and it would demonstrate active caring for the community as a whole and be more inclusive. We wouldn't focus on the few that are outweighed by the many that are murdered in the Black community.
     
  19. ODEN

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    Not saying the divergence from RMMB is a bad thing but perhaps removing the red dots altogether isn't a bad idea if your are banning people because of it and the other behaviors that were a regular part of that board?
     
  20. Kubla Kahn

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    Did I just shit myself?

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    Im sorry Im not following. I never had an issue with the term black lives matter and Im certainly not one of those people that interjects with the all lives matter crap. Im not saying the concept of BLM isn't legitimate as I do think it's a legitimate beef to have with people in authority, authority with the monopoly of force behind them, should be held to a higher standard as what we expect from them and how they wield it. It's actually interesting to me and sort of perplexing to me how much common ground there really is but working out the solution seems impossible. I mean there is the portion on the right that will simply ignore everything put up by the left because of tribal nonsense. There's also a good portion where there is significant overlap but the underlying logic is just completely different. Of that list of things I support or agree with, these aren't new things in my mind since the topic has been forced to the forefront of our culture. These are long held notions, because I was raised to see authority through the prism of limited government. Limited government ideals runs afoul of the left when it comes to socialized medicine and free college but at least lines up in regards to the police and state authority. In terms of creating a winning coalition on the topic there is more than enough of the electorate to do it, the fundamental underlying logic just seems to stymie it.

    I don't agree with this new notion of the left that every. single. thing. needs to be seen through the prism of racism institutional or otherwise. I could probably get on board with it in terms of policing or the justice system. Hearing that STEM is institutionally racist and needs to check itself doesn't resonate in the slightest with me and is honestly apathy inducing. Or when I hear you say every person of color has to take into account white people's history of racism from Indian blankets to Emmitt Till in their interactions with white people today I tune out because that is the very definition of of unadulterated prejudice and a level of logic we will never meet in the middle on. I and a lot of right and right leaning folks could be easy allies in these fight, I don't know how you create that coalition with these type of underpinnings.