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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Revengeofthenerds

    Revengeofthenerds
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    Or fund them
     
  2. xrayvision

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    "Positive" stereotypes are still stereotypes.
     
  3. Revengeofthenerds

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    yeah I just don’t understand all this hate. Like look, we all have ancestors that suck. Every country has dark parts in the history. The US has slavery; Canada has residential schools. Ok, great. Learn from it and grow up.

    it’s these goddamn conspiracy theories now that spread like wildfire because everyone thinks their opinion matters and that one source is as trustworthy as another.
     
  4. xrayvision

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    What if I were to tell you that a lot of people have always felt this way about Jews or whoever else. It’s just that in the current atmosphere of calling out everything that is problematic, it’s just inevitable that Jews get ensnared in it.
     
  5. Revengeofthenerds

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    so if that's the case then do we get to call out organized religion as a whole as being a massive problem and really fucking stupid? Or does everyone have to like pick a team right now and man the battle stations?

    I don't understand the whole idea of a group of people, be it race or religion or sexual orientation or whatever, being "evil" simply because of who they are or what they believe. When someone tries to explain it to me, like the thought process that goes into it even if they don't believe it (like that shit nick cannon was talking about) the wires in my brain just cross and it doesn't compute.
     
  6. Crown Royal

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    “We smelled marijuana”. What a fucking country.

     
  7. downndirty

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    In today's episode of "that's not how racism works" and "this whole shit has jumped the shark":

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...g-ethnic-foods-racial-stereotypes/5464413002/

    I can understand "Aunt Jemimah" being problematic, and maybe worth an explanation. I don't agree, and ffs, no one said shit about the creepy ass dude on Quaker oatmeal, or Uncle Ben's rice, or the Gerber baby...

    Somehow we've gone from "fight racism" to "nothing ethnic can be ethnic, at all." and the only exemption to that is white people. Isn't that....backwards?
     
  8. downndirty

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  9. Binary

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    Is that really what's happening here? Look, I wasn't clamoring for these brands to change, but many were originally rooted in racial stereotypes to cater to their white audiences, including the common use of the term "uncle" as a condescending word to refer to black people.

    We've got a serious racism problem in this country. If somewhat-symbolic gestures by companies with problematic trademarks are part of the path to fixing that, I don't see a big deal here. The pendulum is bound to swing a little further than necessary when correcting for something that has been happening for hundreds of years. And if giant, majority-white corporations have to give up giggling about their "Trader Jose" naming ideas in the board rooms for a little while, it seems like a pretty small price.

    I feel similarly about the #metoo movement. Women have been treated like disposable sex objects for a long time. If I have to be even more careful about the things I say in the workplace while we re-draw the lines and figure out what a positive normal looks like, well, maybe that's just the price we have to pay for getting it wrong for so long.

    Going forward, I'm hoping the same thing happens to the police. Their actions are going to be hyper-scrutinized. They're going to have to tread carefully, probably to an unnecessary degree. But you know what? They did this to themselves by sitting back and letting the shit happen for so long. During any correction, I think it's okay and perfectly normal (and probably even necessary) to over-correct while everyone figures out what the right behavior is.
     
  10. walt

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    Can someone explain this to me? I'm not trying to be obtuse or snarky, I seriously don't understand why. I'd think of it more as a term of respect, other than calling someone an "Uncle Tom".
     
  11. Binary

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    From what I understand, the term uncle started being used to avoid having to refer to black people with a more formal title of respect like "sir" or "mister."

    I am not a cultural historian, just relaying some information that I've been educated to.

    E.g. https://files.nc.gov/dncr-moh/jim crow etiquette.pdf
    https://www.latimes.com/opinion/story/2020-06-17/aunt-jemima-uncle-bens-racism
    It's easy to view these terms through the lens of our own experiences. Obviously "uncle" is not a problematic term in white culture (except possibly for the somewhat-joking "uncles" that the children of a single mother have).
     
  12. downndirty

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    I am confused at ethic food being rooted in stereotypes, I suppose. Again, Aunt Jemimah and Uncle Ben....sure. Trader Ming and Trader Jose? Eh....I think that's being a bit too shy.

    I kind of disagree: the answer to racism isn't "let's remove all mention of these things", it's leaning into the differences until they stop being significant. Racism is rooted in ignorance. That ignorance thrives in a vacuum. Replace the vacuum with familiarity, and hate becomes difficult.

    Put in another way, it's hard to be a Klan member in the Chinese restaurant saying hello to your black neighbor and their Mexican spouse. You need that melting pot to blend. Food is a great way to make that blending happen, so it bothers me that this is the response.

    MeToo and racism are wildly different things.
     
  13. xrayvision

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    The people I have seen who are the most racist and with ignorant opinions about others tend to have the least amount of exposure to those other races. There’s a reason the whole “build the wall” bullshit was more popular in Idaho and Kansas than it is in Texas. Houston is easily the most diverse place I have ever lived and the constant exposure to other ethnicities and all of their food and customs makes you really see just how pointless and stupid all forms of racism are.
     
  14. Binary

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    Maybe, but do you not see why perhaps it's reasonable for for a company whose executive team looks like this:
    Screen Shot 2020-07-20 at 10.45.33 AM.png

    To say "eh... maybe we'll sit this one out" when naming their ethnic products after stereotypical ethnic names? Naming your Chinese food "Trader Ming" is not a huge deal but it's also not helping, so why do it?

    Just seems like maybe this isn't the best place to pick a battle.

    Normalizing ethnic cultures is great, and important. A bunch of rich white dudes sitting around picking a stereotypical ethnic name to throw on their frozen foods isn't doing that, though. No, I don't think it's a real problem, but it seems reasonable to me that they just wipe their hands and nope out of this kind of grey area.

    And I fully disagree that #metoo and racism are that different in this aspect. Both directly relate to a history of systemically treating people in a negative way and now needing to make a significant cultural adjustment to account for that. Of course they are not the same historic problem, but they both require broadly-sweeping cultural changes to address, and those changes are likely to swing past the "normal" mark while we figure out what normal is.
     
  15. downndirty

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    Shrug. I mean, I get erring on the side of caution, but at my local TJ's it's pretty diverse, and I am betting some marketing minion back in '98 did that shit, never to be remembered. I guess where I'm coming from, it seems an over-correction that indicates more fear and trepidation than "we fucked up, and are fixing it." It feels more like "please not us next", and as Dave Chappelle paraphrased Nelson Mandela: fear does not make for lasting peace.

    Is Trader Joe's guilty of racism, or racist stereotyping? No, I don't think so, and I think there are companies (Kellogg's) that are more in the red right now than TJ's.
     
  16. Aetius

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    My next door neighbors are a Hispanic family and they could be illegal immigrants or they could be like 8th generation locals. I can't imagine personally giving a shit which it is.
     
  17. Zach

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  18. Wut

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  19. Nettdata

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  20. Revengeofthenerds

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