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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Revengeofthenerds

    Revengeofthenerds
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    I've noticed, at least in personal experience, an inverse correlation between how much of an "operator" someone thinks they are and how much they spend on their setup to look like one, and how good of a shot they actually are.

    Case in point: my brother in law, who we did the gender reveal thing for with tannerite, spent about $4k on his custom built AR setup. 10x magnification scope, claims he rings steel at 1000 yards. He pulled his first shot on the tannerite, which was 70 yards away, and I had him sitting in a lawn chair with my actual tripod shooting sticks. Meanwhile my neighbor, the one who I had to resuscitate his wife, who was sent home from Vietnam after catching a bullet in his dominant hand as a helicopter door gunner, can still make nice groupings with my 9mm at 20 yards.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    I have zero problems with people teching themselves out like crazy and having all the fun in the world.

    Just leave that shit at home and don’t bring it or your attitude to a protest.
     
  3. NatCH

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    But if they don’t bring their guns to the protest, how are they going to shoot people?
     
  4. downndirty

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    Seriously: do these people think that they could outgun a local SWAT team or the National Guard? Are there people who truly believe they can somehow wage war against the US government and...what? Survive? Win some objective? They think they are some redneck form of Viet Cong? This doesn't strike you as some sort of ignorant fantasy?

    I ask, because that photo strikes me as more of the LARP crowd, and I don't think I could tell the difference between someone cosplaying Rambo and a "militia" that thinks they can seriously overpower an opposing force for more than say, 3 hours, at the end of which they are quite dead, and quite accurately labelled a domestic terrorist.

    I'm struggling with the difference between these guys and ISIS, other than the religion and geography. Oh, and ISIS generally has the balls to pull the trigger, supposedly.
     
  5. toytoy88

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    I've said it before, and I'll say it again: Anyone open carrying makes me nervous as hell.

    I don't know if they know what the hell they're doing. Chances are they don't, because the only reason I see for open carrying is to try and intimidate others and that is definitely misuse of a firearm. A gun only comes out as a last option and if I pull one out that means I am going to put a hole in something. Thankfully, that scenerio has never happened.

    One of my supervisors told me the other day about an encounter in a parking lot he had. He honked at a guy, the guy took exception and got out of his vehicle and started yelling. My supervisor pulled his gun. I just shook my head when he told me about it. I'm sure an unhinged individual screeching at you is unnerving, but pulling a gun? Nope.

    I do wish that gun ownership had some sort of common sense test before you're allowed to have one, but common sense is a quality that seems to be severely lacking in society.
     
  6. bewildered

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    El hubs sat through a firearm safety class which is required by the state to conceal carry. There was a rough older man who obviously wanted to shoot somebody. He kept asking all these questions like ''if I see somebody on the opposite side of a field and they are waving a gun around can I shoot them?'' He wished the teacher would have kicked him from the class. This man coincidentally also only recently regained the legal ability to carry a firearm having served many years for one or more felonies.

    They can make you take a class but it doesn't mean the info will be accepted or internalized.
     
  7. Revengeofthenerds

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    openly carrying a firearm makes you a target for someone with criminal intent, and it leaves your intent open to interpretation. Look at what happened in that Austin protest of a great example on how carrying a firearm in a visible manner can be misinterpreted and end poorly for the carrier. Also, let's say you're open carrying in a gas station and someone comes in to rob it. You're one hit upside the head away from giving them a weapon they didn't arrive with, and having that weapon used on you. The whole idea behind carrying a firearm -- that of self-defense, using it as a last resort to preserve your life or that of family -- is predicated on the fact that you are using the element of surprise as a weapon in and of itself. You are not a threat, and therefor not someone deserving of being attacked, until the absolute last second when you choose to present yourself as one and pull the trigger. Sure, there are times when brandishing can by itself be an adequate deterrent, if not even preferable to lethal options, but those instances are so rare, nuanced, and dependent on individual circumstances that there's no point even getting into it unless it was on a case by case basis.

    The only, and to my knowledge this is the only, reason I can see to justify open carrying is if you are working on a ranch, going hunting or doing something else in the back woods where carrying openly is preferred since you don't have to "dress around the gun," and you have to make an unexpected stop into some place like a Tractor Supply or hardware store where such open carrying wouldn't be out of the ordinary, and you don't have an alternative concealed carry holster on you. In those individual cases, it might be preferable to carry your gun on your person for a short and unexpected stop, than to leave it in your vehicle if you don't have locked storage.
     
  8. Fiveslide

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    If I open carry for whatever reason, I lock it in the vehicle if I need to go in somewhere. I brought it along to protect myself in my vehicle, not to protect Lowe's hardware or Tractor Supply. If I don't feel safe in those places, I don't go in them. My chances of needing a gun in those places is so small that it isn't worth making others nervous.

    Actually, my last trip to Tractor Supply, someone stole a $2,800 wood chipper. There were at least three of them, two in a truck that pulled up to the fenced area and loaded the equipment, while one woman distracted as many employees as possible. No weapon came out, but they got robbed while I was there.

    I recently went to a motorcycle dealer on the way to the track. I open carried. I locked the pistol up and went in the dealership with an empty holster on my hip. The parts guy I was talking to pointed at my hip and said I could have brought my gun in, lifted his shirt to show his pistol and said every employee is packing.
     
  9. ODEN

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    Out of curiousity, I youtube'd the event in GA yesterday to take a look; they are definitely LARPing. No comms, no hydration, no blowout kits, not everyone wearing plates, some that are wearing plate carriers have them on incorrectly. Not to mention, they are all standing within arms-reach of potential threats; that is a big no-no. These types of people aren't the real threat; the real groups that have ex-batt boys and the like in them are the ones to be concerned with. I say this as a complete novice in the tactical firearms training realm; I have many friends who have spent a lifetime as professional soldiers and I am nothing but a tourist in their world. You see a group show up suited and booted wearing peltors and brain buckets then you should probably move out of the area quickly. They do exist; I've never met them but I've been told of them. People get so caught up on hardware (guns) and don't even scratch the surface of software when looking at these types of things. My last post is literally the ABCs of small unit and infantry tactics (software) - fire-move-communicate. If these morons have designs on being in a firefight and think they are going to take up a static position and start shooting then they better be at peace with the fact that they aren't coming home that day.

    I hope I never see the day where there is open rebellion between the Government and the people. It will be the worst possible outcome for all sides. The optics will be terrible for the Government - think Ruby Ridge and Waco turned up to 11. Fighting an opposing force is all about resolve; if the Government is drawn into a fight with these people, you will radicalize a larger swath of the population (people with a libertarian bent and don't agree with authoritarian Government) while hardening the resolve of those already radicalized. The Government will end up fighting at a disadvantage no matter what, due to ROE. It would turn into a low intensity conflict like fighting the Taliban (fighting on their terms - think IED, assassinations, etc.) and if you haven't noticed, the Taliban has taken dot Gov to the warning track and the fight has gone on for 18 or 19 years at this point with no signal of victory in sight. America in it's current incarnation wouldn't survive something like that.
     
  10. Crown Royal

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    The thing in Georgia looked like a Mall Ninja convention. That was the impression I got after ten seconds of viewing. Very, VERY insecure-looking people.
     
  11. downndirty

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    My understanding is the ROE for domestic terrorism isn't that limited, and President Bone Spurs has already taken the dangerous step of labeling antifa a terrorist organization. If they fit that bill, a lot of these militias do as well.

    I think you're overestimating the reach of these militias, and underestimating what the government will do. Over the past 20 years, they've taken incredible liberties with surveillance, apprehending, detaining and even killing US citizens caught up in various efforts against terrorism or drugs. You think they would impose strict ROE on a group they consider domestic terrorists? Why? Hell, look at the "apprehension" of the Boston Bomber. That would be the playbook.

    Resolve? No, it's about weapons and messaging. Who has superiority in weapons and can certainly control the messaging? Gubmint.

    Most folks with a libertarian bent are fed, on the couch in the AC, with a paycheck coming in every couple of weeks or so. It's difficult to leave that comfort for combat and face pretty certain death over "ideals", and we both know the difference between the man who trains well, follows his oath and does what he has to do under orders, and the LARPing wannabe who didn't have the chops, fancies himself a revolutionary and spends too much time talking about "tactics" in situations they cannot realistically win a concrete objective.

    Here's the thing: let's say for example, the Vegas shooter had a valid point. He wasn't crazy, he was using his gun to make a political statement, it wasn't heard so he kept escalating to the point at which he shot people. Do you think anyone is willing to entertain the validity of his views when he pulls a trigger? Anyone gave serious weight to the folks who assassinated various presidents? What about the guy who shot up the Congressional baseball game? You ever wonder why "child abuse" was the reason they rolled tanks into Waco? Because no one was going to defend the liberty of a child abuser then, or a terrorist now, and they never fucking will.

    They will all be hamburger meat, and the news will read "Radical white supremacist domestic terrorist cell neutralized today in brave raid by daring SWAT team using rockets, Blackhawk helicopters, tear gas banned by the Geneva convention and drone strikes, to counter the threat of 9 or 10 guys with rifles and accessories they bought at K-Mart."
     
  12. Crown Royal

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    Has anybody talked to TiB member “Now Slappy” lately? He owns a spot in Florida called the Sunset Grill, and this happened in Florida at a place called Sunset Grill (it IS a popular name for beach bars):

     
  13. PIMPTRESS

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    That’s a classy fucker. I appreciate the immediate response. I’ve seen too many vids lately where bystanders just gape and film.
     
  14. Puffman

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    I certainly hope that man was arrested for assault. Screaming crap is one thing, striking someone is something else.

    I agree with Pimptress that it was nice to see such an immediate response by sufficient people to stop him.
     
  15. Rush-O-Matic

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    The woman that was slapped looked like an employee. I am impressed that all they did was subdue and restrain the guy, instead of beating him to a pulp. Cooler heads than me.
     
  16. Crown Royal

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    That’s exactly what happened. She was a bartender politely telling him that there are children right next to him. That was their friend/co-worker being attacked, he was very lucky not to get bottled or have his hands and feet stomped purple.

    In the end they look classy and he’s held without bail. As you said, cooler heads.

    Personally, I’ve seen enough of these outburst videos that I think they should start force-feeding lithium to anybody who does it. If you’re not evil you’re insane, so stop weaponizing your lack of stability because you’re bored.
     
  17. Revengeofthenerds

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    yup, arrested and charged
     
  18. bebop007

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  19. Fiveslide

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    What a piece of shit.

    If any of you find yourself in that situation, face to face with a looney, anti-mask, racist shit-for-brains, you need to expect this type of thing. That was about as slow a swing as you can expect to see and he gave away his intentions as soon as he started rotating his upper body. If you see that, get out of reach, don't take that hit. Then be ready for the next swing, which will probably be more wild and easier to read, keep moving. If you're not worrying about throwing punches back, it gets a lot easier to duck away from the punches coming at you.
     
  20. Crown Royal

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    If somebody swings at me they’re getting an Ezekiel choke, right away until they turn blue and aren’t moving. I don’t care for waiting for a flurry of punches anymore.