Serious question... when one of the demands of the protesters, that they say is nonnegotiable, is that the current Prime Minister be replaced with one of their own protesters, what do you do? Still let them occupy the city and let them voice their ideas? Forever? When do you stop listening to them and force them to stop? I really do get your point, and agree with you... everyone needs to be able to raise their voice, not just the majority. But they don't get to stamp their feet and throw a tantrum forever until they get their way. This is 3 weeks in, with them treating it like a block party at a place where none of them live. Legal process has been followed to get to the action we're seeing now... it's not like some dictator just said "hey, police force, go shut them up" I mean we get it... they don't want to wear masks. They don't want to have vaccines be required to cross the border. There are also people who don't want to need a driver's license or insurance to drive, but the majority of society has said "nope, this is how it's going to be". If you don't want to do that, then walk, or take the bus.
What do I do, personally? I think that’s a stupid demand to have if you want to affect any change. Look, I don’t know, and I’m not in any position to know what to do about it, and thank God because I’d never get elected, much less re-elected. I’m not saying these people aren’t being stupid. All I’m saying is, I tried to make a point, but it was discounted because the LAPD and NYPD did bad things, which means that I was wrong to say that a different bad thing was actually bad. I failed at making a point, and I apologize.
You missed my point. People have been acting like BLM was allowed to do all this stuff and it's absurd and unfair that Ottawa Police are dispersing and arresting the convoy folks, due to this blatant double standard. My point, as someone who lives in one of those "BLM destroyed" cities, is that there is no double standard, at least not one in that direction. Officials responded to BLM protests almost immediately, and with far more force than has been used in Ottawa. Hell, California Highway Patrol pushed through a blocked highway on day one of protests, and ran over a protestor in the process. The Ottawa boys blocked roads for weeks before the cops even started ticketing.
People may be acting like that. But that was not my point. My point was not regarding the police action involved. Maybe I made it sound like looting preceded that, but I didn’t mean to. It was mainly about the “talking heads,” ie media, be it TV or print (Google “in defense of looting npr”). It was about the local government official - and I will admit I was wrong on the source, it was a BLM activist (Google “BLM Chicago ativist looting reparations”). My final point was very general, I admit. But then again, ACAB isn’t a very nuanced phrase, and I am pretty sure there are board members who agree fully with the phrase. Now, your point is that the response to BLM was swift and heavy-handed, to say the least. And I agree, I’m not arguing that. “The Ottawa boys blocked roads for weeks before the cops even started ticketing.” Why have I been reading for at least two weeks that this protest in Ottawa is extremely dangerous, and have heard the words “terrorism” multiple times, if their actions, while annoying as fuck, have not even warranted a ticket until yesterday? I would think that if it truly was terrorism, the local governments would want to stop any injury/loss of life immediately and we wouldn’t be debating the role of Trudeau and what sort of powers he has. And please keep in mind, with these questions, I’m making observations and sharing things I’ve read. I’m not saying them as a “huh? HUH?!? Gotcha” tactic. To merge it with my main point about social media/ the Internet, that is the problem. It’s that we are moving into our echo chambers, and what we believe is RIGHT, and if we don’t really agree with it, it’s WRONG. And there can be no gray area. And if somebody makes a point that criticizes what we know is RIGHT, we can’t let that go without deflecting to “well those WRONG people are much worse!” I’m just saying that the more everyone starts to ease into this mindset, it’s going to really fuck up the relationship between governments and citizens.
This is part of our frustration. They 100% deserved to be handled. The mayor said it. The Premier said it. The Prime Minister said it. But action was not being taken by the Police Chief. As a result, the PM stepped in and enabled the "war crimes" act to allow Federal action to be taken to handle it. At that point, the police chief resigned, and his deputy took over, and within hours shit was happening. The Beaverton is the Canadian equivalent of The Onion, but they really do nail this shit: https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/0...-spend-more-time-with-friends-and-loved-ones/ There was some shit going on behind the scenes that really blocked action from being taken. Never mind that the Conservative side really sided with the protesters and were hoping to leverage this whole thing to their advantage. Again, the Beaverton nails it. https://www.thebeaverton.com/2022/0...rotest-they-fully-support-and-hope-continues/ It's fucking hilarious, because it's true.
So would you consider it terrorism? And I ask that honestly. I mean, I guess the definition is “violence and intimidation, particularly against civilians,” so if it was terrorizing and intimidating, then okay. Was it violent? Most of what I’ve seen is just people shouting at each other a lot (on the streets and in your parliament). I’m not saying I agree with it at all, I’m just saying what I’ve seen. This last day is when I’ve seen cops starting to break shit up, and that’s the most violence I’ve seen. But now - again, back to my point - that means that the echo chambers we’ve all landed in and just going to be calling whatever another group does terrorism.
Yes. They attacked people on the street. They are demanding a change in government. They were beating up staff at local shops to the point that some of the busiest office and shopping areas in Ottawa were shut down. They are intentionally trying to cause economic harm to the country by shutting down ports. I have a friend who's daughter lives not far from there, and she felt unsafe, to the point that she moved back to London here until it's over. Many people in the area felt/feel unsafe, and were intimidated physically by the protesters. There is nothing peaceful about them, except their protestations at their PR events. Never mind all of this is at the end of a lockdown from a pandemic. Shops were allowed to re-open a week ago due to the Provincial mandates, and yet they couldn't because the protesters were blocking them from opening.
Jerry was spreading "information" that there was a massive risk of myocarditis that was being hidden from people. Shared some right wing sites, etc. I checked the CDC database. 2,775 cases of vaccine linked myocarditis, 87% affecting males between the age of 16 - 25. 92% hospitalization rate (!), but 87% of those people were released with full recovery following an NSAID (read IV ibuprofen) drip. I told him to eat shit and backed it up with some quick numbers, he said he was "just questioning, look at what the mainstream media was trying to hide" and "had no agenda". His parents remain unvaccinated, believe in that space queen or whatever, and are MAGA chuds. They think the truckers fight for freedom and against Trudeau because of Jerry. "Just asking questions" doesn't mean you don't have an agenda, or that you're intellectually curious. They listen to him because he made the most money out of all their children, and gets interviewed about Bitcoin shit (although these days it's mostly in the BSV propaganda sites that he's in with). People like Jerry are the real dangers. They're the firestarters, and people trust them because they're educated and monied. Jerry is after notoriety for "being the one who stood against the tide". He claims to be part of the OG bitcoin vanguard, but fails to be recognized as such because...he wasn't. He needs to you believe that he is though. Just like this, he needs to be contrarian and correct. If you don't recognize his genius, it's because you're not listening.
So the actual truth out of Ottawa is that the Freedom Convoy is a terrorist organization, being aided and abetted (or at the very least, ignored) by the Ottawa police force?
There was inaction by the Ottawa police force, but there is a reason why there is federal action to stop the finances of a number of those attending the protest. It might be interesting to note that one of the protest organizers is flying around in a private jet. It's not just a bunch of truck drivers with nothing better to do with their time. There are some external political forces supporting this effort. And that's why the outgoing police chief is under investigation.
In the end, after due process in the courts, almost three weeks worth, the protest was deemed an illegal occupation, and the RCMP are tasked with cleaning it out. And that's what they are doing.
Another interesting fact is the amount of donation funds towards the convoy that came from the United States. Like, a LOT of it. That certainly could be an interesting paper trail.
So is any protest (on any side of the political spectrum) that is being funded by external political forces less valid? Or does it revert back to - “this protest is a good thing to me, so it’s okay to have a PAC sending it money.” I mean, as an American, I would be shocked if any protest in our country, of any kind, did not have external political forces funding them - foreign or domestic.
It's illegal. The US doesn't allow it, for example. People that were going to go from Canada to US to any of the Trump demonstrations were turned back at the border. It only makes sense that you should not allow external powers to influence your internal country's politics.
You forget that doing so is pretty much the MO of the US across the world, makes sense that it would be surprising.
Yes, it’s illegal. I just don’t believe it doesn’t happen, but that’s just my opinion. So is it alright for an internal power to fund a protest organization?
See: I wasn’t gonna go there. Because if I found a link that said that, it would be an invalid source. And the immediate response is “*cough* Koch Brothers *cough*” Echo chambers, no gray areas. That’s my point.