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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Nettdata

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    Yeah, but this also gives the rest of the cops some sort of motivation to stop the bad apples.
     
  2. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    He should be more upset at the thought of his kids getting harassed and/or beat up at school ever day because their father is a lying chickenshit.

    Once again, everyone suffers except the one who DESERVES to suffer.
     
  3. downndirty

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    The issue is these are tiny, local departments, not subject to sweeping reforms, and often are only touched by the federal government in the form of grants from a few different departments: DHS for some stuff, DOJ for some stuff, DOD for others, etc.

    So reforming Uvalde might ensure it never happens again there, but literally the next town over those reforms don't mean shit.
     
  4. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    The only reform that will ever work is destroying qualified immunity and arbitration. No bullshit reform will curb these fucking animals.They never deserved to have it, the party needs to be OVER.
     
  5. dixiebandit69

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    I'm sure he had to call in a lot of favors to suppress that footage, and it was all for nothing.
     
  6. Revengeofthenerds

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    every time something else comes out, it keeps getting worse for them. And I have a feeling it isn't finished either.
     
  7. Crown Royal

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    And the Uvalde mayor who is also a miserable and worthless piece of shit is angry about the video release, because it contradicts the utter horseshoe he’s been spewing for a month about how the cops did their job correctly.

    What a fucking asshole. He will NOT shut up.
     
  8. downndirty

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    This is what the "bad apples" argument keeps talking about though: you'd never have cops without it, and it's hard enough to recruit them.

    This becomes a dangerous descent: you can't recruit good cops if punishing the bad apples punishes the entire profession.

    Uvalde is absurd, and the fact that no one is claiming responsibility for the failure to assume command and direct cops inside is only going to get worse and more embarrassing.
     
  9. AFHokie

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    Ever since Columbine, active shooter training rule #1, #2, #3, & #4 has been as soon as there's more than one of you, you stack up and go in. You go in hard, you go in fast and you retake the initiative from the shooter. What you see in the video is a lack of leadership intersecting with group-think and cowardice. These officers were sheep in wolf's clothing...sheepdogs my ass.

    Also, based on other reports, (such as the officer supposedly requesting approval to engage the shooter before he even entered the building) I think these officers were conditioned to ask for permission and wait for approval before they do anything.

    As DD said, this is a major piece of the problem. The bulk of fed funds tends to pay for material and less so on training. Also, we tend to focus on the wrong aspects of training...I can teach everyone here the basics in an afternoon how to stack up and enter a room to engage an active shooter, but until we increase emphasis on leadership training and initiative nothing will change.

    For many of the US military's faults, the one thing I think we do better than most is teaching action in the absence of leadership at the tactical level. It's one of our greatest intangible assets and I fear that it is eroding.

    Destroying qualified immunity will have the opposite effect. It certainly needs reform, but if officers have no protection at all, you will see this become the norm...which after Broward and Uvalde I fear it is becoming the norm. You cannot send people into dangerous & dynamic environments with constantly changing variables without some sort of protection after-the-fact protection. No matter how well trained, in the moment a person may not make the best choice and if you hammer them afterwards when you had infinite time and zero danger to yourself to dissect their decisions, you will never find anyone willing to go into those situations again.

    Again, what DD is said is exactly what we're seeing. It's telling that neither the Uvalde mayor or police chief have stood up and taken responsibility for not properly empowering their officers to take the initiative. Again, like I said earlier, I think these officers were conditioned to do the opposite...pull back and wait to be told what to do.
     
  10. Crown Royal

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    Qualified immunity is a corrupt cop’s security blanket, their shield they hide behind, and their diaper when they take a shit. It is a license for thugs to commit crimes. Policing will never, EVER improve in your country as long as it exists, because it is the very thing that attracts criminals into being cops instead.

    If cops are so worried about losing something, then they can simply put their faith into the investigation just like the rest of us have to. Only we don’t have the benefit of having our drinking buddy investigate us. We don’t get to cover up our crimes while telling the media to go fuck themselves. We don’t get to openly lie in court with impunity and blow smoke up some corrupt arbitrators’ ass to make sure we don’t lose a single day’s pay for killing a child. We don’t get to fall back on tyrannical sociopathic over-funded unions run by shitbags so corrupt they can’t even be cops half the time. We don’t get to show up at a house with weapons to intimidate anyone who complains against us. We don’t get a free ride home after getting busted drink driving. We don’t get to silence anybody who bruised our ego in the slightest by locking them in a cage like an animal. We don’t get to shrug off committing a murder with “I feared for my life/he reached towards his waistband/he was acting erratic.” We also , finally, don’t get qualified immunity.

    We don’t get ANY of those twenty-foot thick airbags to land on, we fuck up and it’s over for us. All those things for a job where you have the ability to make any person your bitch at any time you want. All those things and they still fuck up relentlessly everywhere.

    After hearing the Minneapolis police brag and laugh about hunting innocent citizens, you have not one logical reason to trust a cop anymore. It is a system broken beyond repair until all those safety nets are taken away from them and they are ACTUALLY treated like the rest of us: fairly.

    If “failure to intervene” was actually treated as a crime (which it is) three quarters of the cops in your country would be behind bars for it. It’s not a bad apple problem, the entire tree is poisoned.
     
    #14710 Crown Royal, Jul 13, 2022
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2022
  11. malisbad

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    100% support for the removal of qualified immunity. It's far, FAR too broad, and it's not just "bad apples" because they're all bad.

    The fact of the matter is that police presence is, at best, a "if present, what do" deterrent. Traffic cops are probably the only ones that reasonably deter people from always behaving badly on the road. They're not "protecting" anyone, they're barely trained, barely educated, and that kind of work with that kind of power tends to attract a very particular type of male. They get bored, so you get a pile on at a traffic stop, or an ID check, or literally anything. I don't think that the police should disappear entirely, but I do think that there needs to be a complete overhaul on how they are deployed and managed.

    I thoroughly believe that they need to be turned over to the "koban" or "police box" system of local policing by people who live in that local community. They're small buildings with a small desk and seating area out front. Glass front for the office area, so you can see whom is talking to the police. Usually a (very) small area in the back for storage, lost and found items, etc. The pigs don't get cool bikes, they get step-through frame loser cruisers with a hard case for their clipboard on the back. They don't get cool cars, they get the equivalent of a Toyota Yaris, but worse. More like a comfortable Geo Metro. They don't get stuff reminiscent of tacticool gear, they look like chumps from Police Academy.

    I also think they should have little to no decision making power. An unarmed social worker, or other specialized person should be the people out there on the beats, doing most of what constitutes "police work" and they police finally become the only thing they really are: an instrument of the state's monopoly on violence. They're tools, and they should be the muscle that is deployed only when necessary and never at their own discretion.
     
  12. toytoy88

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    Here's a fun story to keep an eye on: Portland Antifa decided to harass some dive bar, turns out that bar is/was a hangout for the Gypsy Jokers, the most vicious and notorious 1% biker gang in the PNW. Antifa pushed and shoved some of the GJ's women, got chased off, and started doxxing members. Fun Fact: One of the reasons the GJ's are notorious is their love of torturing their rivals to death and dumping their bodies on old logging roads.
     
  13. GcDiaz

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    Was this in February? Any repercussions since?
     
  14. Zach

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    Just when you think you can't get any more disgusted by the cowards in Uvalde we find out that there were 376 armed officers on scene waiting for backup before confronting the attacker.

    https://www.opb.org/article/2022/07/17/systemic-failures-in-uvalde-school-massacre-report-finds/

     
  15. toytoy88

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    I'm not aware of any previous conflicts, but this one was on Saturday in Salem.
     
  16. NatCH

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    Link? Where is the story? I can’t find anything on it.
     
  17. Juice

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  18. downndirty

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    It's almost like neither of these groups are actually violent, interesting or relevant.

    I didn't think biker gangs drank kombucha, anyway.
     
  19. toytoy88

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    The only news of it I've seen is Twitter.
     
  20. xrayvision

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    If Andy Ngo is your source, you can pretty much write off the story entirely. He’s a known propagandist.