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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. walt

    walt
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    Unfortunately, in an "active shooter" incident, there is shooting. So when "run" or "hide" doesn't work, what's left to fight back?

    It's unacceptable to all of us, but it's the reality we face. Look, I agree, we should be finding as many ways as possible to stop these assholes from committing these acts in the first place. But you don't do that by passing laws that only seem to affect people who follow the law in the first place.

    That's like trying to legislate an end to rape by cutting off everyone's dick and hoping everyone gets in line. In a perfect world, that sort of solution would work, but we don't live in a perfect world. And not everyone's gonna get in line to get their johnson chopped off.
     
  2. walt

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    I've seen statements like this before, alluding to someone with a concealed carry permit carrying because they're "looking to get some." I'm here to tell you folks, more often than not, nothing it further from the truth.

    That thing is the heaviest two pounds I can ever carry. I spent 25 years of my time on this planet saving lives. The absolute last thing I want to do is ever pull that thing and take one. I don't dream about it, talk about it, fantasize about it... whatever. I can't stand violence and I've seen up close and personal what a gun does to a human body. I don't want to inflict that. Ever.

    And I don't want it inflicted on me or my family just because we picked today to go watch Thor or whatever.

    I think the problem here is the way factions of the two "sides" of this discussion see each other. One half thinks "they" are a bunch of gun grabbing communists and the other half thinks "they" are sitting around jerking off to thought of racking up a bad guy body count. Meanwhile your average gun owner can be reasoned with, but also wants to ensure their family is safe. There's a lot of wiggle room, but we're not getting there with the current dialogue.
     
  3. Nettdata

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    I also think a huge part of this is that the Powers That Be tend to push the "wait for the professionals, let them do their job" approach... but the MSM is showing nothing but how incompetent and ineffective those so-called "experts" and "professionals" can be.

    You don't see the news coverage of the ones that worked out properly, only the big cluster fucks that make for sensational, eye-catching content, or pushes a specific narrative.

    I know there are definitely situations where I wouldn't trust others to have my personal best interests at heart, or to be capable...
     
  4. downndirty

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    My statement was in response to the disagreement with the "Run, hide, fight" doctrine, my understanding of which was developed by law enforcement to train folks on how to handle being in an active shooter situation. No one is objecting to CCW's, aside from perhaps the notion that isn't sufficient training, which....(shrugs), probably true.

    I don't think the solution is more laws. The laws we do have are often illogical, impossible to enforce, and wildly short of what needs to happen. Also, the laws in NYC need to be different than in rural MT. No argument there. I think the role of fed gun laws are to govern when one state's laws (or lack thereof) impact another, and to support the states managing their particulars as they see fit.

    FWIW, I'm a liberal gun owner. I've also survived a suicide attempt playing Russian roulette. I've never been in an active shooter situation, but I have to sit through that God-awful training every year.

    I think if we consider gun-ownership a right, then we need to do a much better job of policing our own. It's fucking repulsive when I see folks buying AR's bragging about how they'd shoot protesters in their yard, as ignorant as fuck of what that does to a body, or a person. Every gun owner I know has seen some cringey, Gravy Seals, bullshit they didn't call out and I'm willing to bet everyone here could write down 5 names of folks they'd check on if they were told there was a potential active shooter in their community.

    In other words, gun owners as a group seem to have no tolerance for a limitation on their right, and yet seem to have serious limitations on their responsibilties. I don't think that works, and one needs to change immediately.
     
  5. Aetius

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    This is a weird thing that Americans tend to do where they act like things that already exist elsewhere in the world are some unachievable utopian fantasy. Low gun crime, universal healthcare, trains, etc.
     
  6. walt

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    A-fucking-men.
     
  7. Juice

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    Give it a year for when the rest of the world starts running out of food (possibly). Then it will feel like a utopia.
     
  8. zzr

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    So how would you solve that? What are my responsibilities as a gun owner except to be responsible with the guns I control? I can also support harsh penalties for people who commit crimes with guns. If I'm not a danger to anyone else why should my rights be limited when I've never committed a crime, like most of the 70-100 million other gun owners in the U.S.? What are the specific solutions we should implement in order to prevent some wacko from shooting up a school or mall? What things should I do as a responsible gun owner to help prevent that type of crime?
     
  9. downndirty

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    Fix gun culture.

    It's that simple. My experience in gun culture comes from my father and grandfathers hunting/trapping, and target shooting. No one in my life ever talked about shooting someone. No one stockpiled guns because they were worried about the gubmint coming after them. No one, and I mean no one, would tolerate brandishing a gun at protesters. The quickest way to get shooed off the range is to start spouting some Rambo bullshit like you were anything more than a kid learning how to shoot.

    You can have all kinds of fun with all kinds of guns, no fucking problem. Shoot RPG's at old cars all the livelong day, have fun, don't blow your tits off. Dress like Robocop's wet dream, no one cares.

    Don't fantasize about their being human beings in the line of fire. If you feel the need to shoot at people, go play airsoft/paintball, and much like kink/porn, contain that fantasy to a place where no one gets hurt.

    Also, recognize the language we're using to describe people matters. Every victim is an American citizen, a father/mother, daughter/son, etc. Calling them libtards, maniacs, criminals, etc. dehumanizes them. If you're going to say "I'd shoot every last one of them (what the fuck ever)" then it's up to the rest of us to say "pack your shit, and get the fuck out of here. You don't shoot civilians. You don't shoot American citizens. You don't shoot unarmed people. You fucking worthless pussy." My belief is that people who seriously think that way don't deserve to have guns, because they apparently don't understand the rules around "responsible gun ownership."

    Put it simply: being a responsible gun owner isn't just refraining from committing crimes. It's ensuring the rest of the community isn't indulging in dangerous fantasies, dehumanizing potential targets, and otherwise being fuckheads. We police our own starting with the difference between what these people see on TV, the internet tough guys saying they might do, and how you actually speak and behave around firearms.

    Part of the problem is being a dangerous paranoid fuckhead makes it easier to sell guns.
     
  10. Zach

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  11. Aetius

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    Well that's hardly unexpected

    Excuse me, hwat?
     
  12. Nettdata

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    It's a subsidiary, and what do you want to bet it was some sort of evening janitorial staff position?

    There are a lot of details missing out of it.

    Not condoning it, but I doubt it's as bad as everyone is thinking.

    And I bet a big part of it is the family pushing the kids to forgo school and make money to help the family... seems to be a common theme in a number of cultures.
     
  13. Zach

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    To me that makes it sound more like they were working real jobs there
     
  14. Nettdata

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    Yeah, you're right. Dayum.
     
  15. malisbad

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    > She said she remembered working with one migrant girl who "looked 11 or 12 years old."

    I wouldn't trust an Alabaman to correctly gauge the age of a non-white person. You should see the comments that roll in guesstimating the age of Asian peeps.
     
  16. Revengeofthenerds

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  17. Aetius

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    Insider trading, outsider confessing.
     
  18. dixiebandit69

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  19. Zach

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  20. xrayvision

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    The real fuck up is hiding stuff from discovery. Him perjuring himself is just the icing.