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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Nettdata

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    The issue isn't around providing "safe space", the issue I have is with their definition of "safe space".

    If "safe space" is defined as being "blacks only", then that's a problem, and those people better get their fucking heads out of their asses. We've been down that road, and we have to learn from it, not repeat it.

    Right now so much of this is coming off like petulant children stamping their feet, and at some point they need a smack upside the head and be told to smarten up.

    If they're going to act like children, then they should be treated like children.
     
  2. Parker

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    It's actually "People of Color" which is non-whites. The reasoning is that they aren't allowing white people in because those white people either 1) are causes of the issues or 2) are constantly attacking them for believe that issue exists 3) belittling them in some way.

    Also to repeat: "Safe spaces for people of color is not the same thing as Jim Crow segregation. Because people who violate that aren't going to jail, aren't going to get brutally beaten/killed, or have their property vandalized/burned. On top of that the spaces left open for white people are not in anyway inferior. Well, unless you consider 80% of the Western World inferior or an unsafe space." We haven't in fact been down that road, as that road would resemble "reverse racism" which is not a thing.

    I'm just dying to know how they should be going about this, as I said, this thread is just shitting on them with no solutions offered. What's the smart way for them to do this that would get the desired result? Seriously, you guys have seen the facts, read the stories about the shit that has gone down and know the situation. What is the right plan to get everything on a equal playing field and this stuff in check?
     
  3. gamecocks

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    I don't think you can say the 18-21 something don't know the proper approach to things, yet also say that they are mature enough to understand that these demands are negotiation tactics.
     
  4. Parker

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    Nope, I'm not saying THEY know they're negotiation tactics. I'm just saying if you look at everything from a top down view, that's what it is. That's why I'm saying it's a cultural negotiation, just like the civil rights movement. What I'm saying is that everything is going to balance out eventually. That's how stuff happens with social change, which we can all agree needs to happen. Right?

    This is civil rights 2.0 in 2015 happening right now. Lots of things in the mix and a lot of people asking for it to be equality. The issue is the people who see this as an attack on them and not trying to make sure everyone is moderately content so we can all go on with our lives. Pro-Black isn't Anti-White. Just because I like cats, doesn't mean I hate dogs. For some reason, people see this as a zero sum game and it shouldn't be.
     
  5. Juice

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    You might feel that way. But when they storm a student library, get in people's faces and call a random woman a "white bitch," you can't claim that's constructive negotiation. And you also can't claim they're not really part of the movement when they proclaim to be. It's also not fair to expect the rest of society to blindly meet their demands, but not judge or criticize how that message is being conveyed. You can't have it both ways.

    I'm not dismissing the demands themselves, I think there are some very valid ones in there. But you can't expect people to respond positively to an absurd level of negativity.
     
  6. Parker

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    Good points, except for the having it both ways, no one is doing that. It is unfortunate that there are people who are taking advantage of the situation to act like assholes. They're also reacting to "300 years etc.," but in a way that doesn't facilitate their goals. It is unfair and unrealistic to expect a people subjected to so much irrational prejudice and racism react with a perfect rational behavior. The true irony is that to be the bigger person one must be shit on first.

    The word "negotiation" here is an analogy. "Negotiation" is a lens to which to view this process at a cultural level even if the students or their immediate receivers of their message understand it to be. Analogy wise, it's akin to requesting $120k salary when a $100k salary the goal, just much messier than that. Historically, when there is a large power who usually has a say in how things are, the people who want that changed because it is unfair don't send a politely worded letter. It has no impact. Or they did and it was ignored. We celebrate the Boston tea party as a nation, but we look at this with such disgust and judgment.

    Also keep in mind, using Mizzou as a concrete example, there is a timeline. If Tim Wolfe did anything outside of an online racism training course, to address swastika in feces and people driving by shouting the most charged word in this country's history, there wouldn't be an issue. The problem was that it was ignored. Things escalated. The problem isn't the tipping point of the escalation, the problem is that they had to escalate. Not like all these students just woke up one day and said "Fuck it, life is perfect, let's start protesting."

    No one is unfairly expecting society to "blindly meet their demands." That needs to be broken down. Because the core of the situation, using Mizzou as a concrete example, the demands are that there is life equality. That no one draws swastika signs in human feces on their door. That's a fair request. Also a fair request is that if someone does draw a swastika in human feces on their door that the institution takes action to investigate and punish. That's also a fair request.

    If the trade off is "To meet the demands, there must be criticism." Well that's fair, if the criticism is constructive, and that definition is below. Has the criticism been constructive? There hasn't been constructive criticism in this thread or at all from the people so vehemently attacking the students. Article after article of how these people are so bad, they're doing it wrong, and/or they need to be addressed with physical violence.
    Well this thread has the negative comments down 100%. It would be great to see the rest so this can continue to be a fruitful conversation, because when everyone just agrees something is bad, that's a pretty boring conversation.
     
    #1506 Parker, Nov 23, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2015
  7. Nettdata

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    And the mere fact that they are classifying people indiscriminately by the colour is all that needs to be said. That's racist. Period.

    Fuck them.

    Make it a "safe place" based on action... if someone is doing something in contravention, then kick them the fuck out.
     
  8. Volo

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    Everyone needs a wake up call from time to time. This is the wake up call needed to allow whites to be able to understand what segregation was like, albeit on a much, much lesser scale. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I definitely want to see where it goes, and if anyone comes away having learned something.
     
  9. Nettdata

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    That's not fixing the problem, that's wanting revenge.

    That's like saying "hey, let's stop rape by raping people, but only as a negotiation tactic to get people to understand that raping people is bad."
     
  10. Volo

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    Bullshit. The two actions are not even remotely similar.

    I'll give you partial credit though, it does seem like backward logic.
     
  11. Nettdata

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    Logic has absolutely nothing to do about it... it's a 100% completely emotional response.

    It's basically saying "I can do this because I'm special, and you can't do it because you're not."

    By saying that a Non-White zone is a "safe zone", it's saying that all whites are bad. Explain to me again how that's not offensive, never mind racist?


    It's a "if you don't think like us we don't want you here" circle jerk, plain and simple.
     
  12. toytoy88

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    #1512 toytoy88, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  13. toytoy88

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    It's getting bad. The protesters are spreading rumors that police were the shooters and are getting very agitated.
     
  14. toytoy88

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  15. Aetius

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    The media is so awful about reporting rumors as fact that I'm willing to bet when the whole story comes out it turns out there isn't even a city named Minneapolis.
     
  16. toytoy88

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    No, this is from the livestream of the crowd itself.

    EDIT: Holy shit, The guys they're interviewing now just flat out admitted the crowd attacked the shooters, chased them and then got shot.
     
    #1516 toytoy88, Nov 24, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2015
  17. ODEN

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    http://news.sky.com/story/1593241/putin-downing-of-jet-a-stab-in-the-back

    This is starting to blossom beyond a conflict within a single country and has the potential to get much bigger. I doubt the Russians will take having their military aircraft being shot down by Turkey lightly. To top that off, US weaponry is showing up on the scene where Russian aircraft and tanks are being destroyed.
     
  18. Trakiel

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    Damn, am I allowed to do this? I mean can I just go to PP where there are anti-abortion protesters, start some trouble, then shoot the shit out of them when they try to push me away from their protest?
     
  19. Kampf Trinker

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    You're comparing the slaughter of over 100+ innocent people in a single day to gang members that have been killing each other for years, and saying the difference in attention is racism? I think you just broke some kind of record.

    Funnily enough the only people I've seen bring up the ongoing gang violence in Chicago were white.

    The Mizzou protests are beyond absurd. Some weirdo drew a poop swastika and then the only thing the protesters have to go on is 'allegedly' someone OFF CAMPUS shouted racial slurs from a car. This report was made by someone who has a history of lying about these things, like recently claiming the KKK were on campus and shortly after everyone determined he was completely full of shit. Who supports these clowns and why?
     
  20. ODEN

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    Parker, this is brilliant. We could take this concept and expand on it; we could implement it in every city in America, no need to stop at college campuses. Let's call it separate but equal......You know, we could take it further, we could make these boundaries legal, as in, you stay there and I'll stay here. We could have separate schools, we could collect taxes and develop public budgets based on those boundaries. This way people of color could have what they are clamoring for. Seriously, why stop at designated spaces on a campus if this is what people want, right? This way people of color don't need to be bothered by white folks saying negative things to them ever.

    It's weird though, I almost get this sense of deja vu when I write this?