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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Gravy

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    You really think you would be going on and on and on about this in the same way if Willie Nelson got arrested for the exact offense and said these exact things? And if you also have some particular beef with Willie Nelson, think long and hard if you would apply the same standards to an American celebrity who you do like. I very much doubt it.

    You'd probably say, "Well shit, we shouldn't have traded the merchant of death for them, but I'm glad they're back."
     
  2. Revengeofthenerds

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  3. Revengeofthenerds

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    I like Willie Nelson, but fuck him if that's what he did. You travel to a different country, you play by their rules, full stop. Specifically, anyone who is OPTIONALLY traveling to Russia during this time should know what risks they're taking.

    I've followed Greiner since she went to Baylor, because I used to be a lot more into basketball than I am now (Lebitch ruined it) and I know a bunch of people who went to Baylor. She's plays basketball really well, but she's also literally a fucking moron. And a wife beating piece of shit at that. She should be in prison here, before she went over there, never mind getting her released. I'm not as concerned about swapping that arms dealer dude because I'm sure there's a drone watching his every move. I'm more concerned with the fact that if we were gonna make that play and get someone out of Russian jail, it was for her. Her getting arrested for breaking a law in Russia, while they're in a war with a country we're funding, was the most not-surprising event since hearing that trump got covid.

    I give it two years, max, before she's arrested state side for something. And if I was a betting man that something would be either DV again, or DWI resulting in injury. She really is just a horrible, stupid human, and hopefully this event sheds a light on how the WNBA and "fame" has covered for her.
     
  4. Popped Cherries

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    Just to clear up a few of the grandiose things people online and this thread are saying -

    1. "The Merchant of Death" has been in prison for over a decade and was set to be released in a few years. Getting anything for him in a prisoner swap is a good thing. His arms dealing was mostly selling old Soviet era weapons to other countries. The same weapons which have proven to be pretty terrible in the war against Ukraine. 15 years in prison has made him irrelevant other then his history. People are trumping this up like he's this international super villain, but no one knew who this guy was before this prisoner swap and in a year no one is going to remember who he is.

    2. Countries trade prisoners pretty regularly. Not to bring out the whataboutism, but I seem to remember Trump releasing 5000 Taliban prisoners when he was negotiating the Afghanistan withdrawal deal. China has swapped spies with Taiwan, Russia swapped prisoners with Ukraine, the US pretty recently swapped some people in GITMO for Bergdhal, etc etc. I'm sure this "feels" different, but the US government doesn't just leave its citizens in jail in other countries without trying to get them released. For people talking shit about the US getting involved with a prison swap of someone of notoriety, however insignificant that may be, is pretty fucked up.

    3. The ex-marine who is still there was never on the table for being released. On top of being an ex-marine, dishonorably discharged by the way, he was arrested for being in possession of state secrets on a suspected spy mission, which is why he's being considered a high value prisoner. He won't be up for release unless someone or something drastic happens. It's not like negotiating on draft day in the NFL to try and move up a few slots to get the WR you want.
     
  5. Rush-O-Matic

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    All of y'all are overlooking the fact that maybe Biden made the trade because he needed to clear cap space.
     
  6. SouthernIdiot

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    The debt ceiling's a bitch.
     
  7. Kubla Kahn

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    I think a lot of people are pissed in the “never negotiate with terrorist” sense in that that Russia obviously did this as a ploy and played us like a fiddle right in the middle of the worldwide upheaval of their war in Ukraine. Politically it is a much bigger black eye that we caved because we are leading the charge in denouncing Russia’s illegal war.
     
  8. AbsentMindedProf

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    You don't think it would be a bigger political black eye if we let a semi-prominent US citizen rot in what's essentially a gulag for nearly a decade? I get that the optics make it look like we "lost" this exchange, but I'm not down for leaving any American citizen in those conditions.
     
  9. Juice

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    This one is good for a laugh:

    upload_2022-12-9_10-45-21.png
     
  10. Fiveslide

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    Nine years for some small amount of cannabis oil, that was almost certainly prescribed by an American physician, should be damn near considered a human rights violation.

    I wish we were in a better position, that we actually had leverage over Russia, to get a better deal on this exchange. I don't know how you get in that position with Russia or similar governments that could not care less if their regular citizens rot in a foreign prison.
     
  11. Crown Royal

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    But I thought she “always get DOWN at the cookout!”

    Fucking bitch.
     
  12. Binary

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    I just can't give a shit about this at all.

    Viktor Bout was going to be released soon, so it hardly seems like some massive concession by the US.

    Griner is stupid but AFAIK was being held on trumped up charges. Her being a kinda shitty human being and/or having a likely future here with the justice system doesn't mean Russia gets to stick her in a work camp for a decade.

    I'm just not certain what the big deal is here. You could argue that Russia "won" the exchange because they almost assuredly held Griner with this intent, but the person they got back has been in prison for a decade and a half and was set to be released, so... good job, Russia? I guess?

    Frankly, we have no idea (and will never know) if there was anything else to this exchange anyway. You have to figure Russia's propaganda system would highly value Bout's release, and it's entirely possible that they were willing to concede something less public for their national "victory." But even if it was just a straight prisoner swap, it seems really hard for me to get worked up about a "political black eye" when this seems like a minor concession at worst.
     
  13. dixiebandit69

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  14. Juice

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    It depends on whatever value you place on other geopolitical factors at play. I don't think its a coincidence that Russia agreed to it at the exact same time their crude exports have started cratering after the price cap.
     
  15. Crown Royal

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    There are still tens of thousands rotting in shithole jails in America for the exact same crime. The only reason it’s not as bad is because they speak English in the western version of hell. And Kamala Harris fought hard to keep them in prison.
     
  16. Popped Cherries

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    I think there's a slight difference between being in jail for a year in the US and being in jail in a Russian work camp for 9 years. Not saying the people in the US should be in jail for the same crime, but it's not exactly apples to apples.
     
  17. Juice

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    People get put in prison for much longer than 1 year. Some people have been in prison for decades for felony possession under Three Strikes Law(s).
     
  18. downndirty

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    I think about Bert Kreisher's "The Machine" bit, and can't imagine Griner thinking she'd get away with it, as much as she got permission to do it (or at least was told it was ok by someone she could believe).

    I don't get the comparison between people in the US in jail for weed and Griner in Russia for weed. Different countries, different laws, different times....And, no one is saying the folks in jail for weed now are there appropriately for justice. I think Griner's arrest and sentencing was a PR stunt that worked, simple as that. Her status as an athlete, celebrity, wife-beater, don't really matter except in relation to the PR stunt. I think about the tourists who got burned in Bali for smuggling coke/weed that never made the news, or the entire run of "Locked Up Abroad"...shit's a nightmare, it's not fair, and it's the State Dept's job to get them the fuck out. It's not their call as to how/why these folks landed in a foreign jail in the first place, nor to assess their guilt/innocence.

    Also, the comparison to the Marine who got caught spying is bullshit, because...well, that's a whole different ball game.

    I've been told life's not fair, especially these days.
     
  19. Crown Royal

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    None of them should be in jail for that crime. But others think otherwise. I’m a daily smoker, but I wouldn’t even think about taking it to Cuba because it’s a life sentence there. I know not to break foreign law, and have known not to do it since I was six years old.
     
  20. Kubla Kahn

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    It’s a black eye because it sets a precedent that they can detain “semi prominent” Americans for political and or propaganda purposes. Like others have mentioned there are plenty of people nabbed by localities across the globe who wouldn’t have the state department swap out shit much less an arms dealer that has direct crimes linked to genocidal warlords. Lots of real people died because of his dealings. Lulz he was about to get outs anyway so what if he sold old Soviet era SAMs amiright?

    It’s fucked she got skipped in line because of who she is. It’s fucked he was the one they traded her for. It’s fucked it was an obvious ploy that we folded to. Shit sandwich all the way around.