I'm not necessarily for or against any particular gun control measure, but you can't really evaluate any state in isolation considering how wide fucking open the borders are between US states. In any event, if this was actually over a dispute at a holiday party, I officially throw in the towel. I have no idea how that happens. How any individual, of any mindset, can successfully wrangle up two buddies to start murdering a dozen random people because Suzy fucked Chad during the holiday party that slut.
I don't know who it is, but I know how it will turn out. If it's a foreign threat, America will do something. If it's domestic, they will do less than nothing.
Hah, no, but we don't have to *help* them. CA has a ban on assault weapons. However, you can pretty much go anywhere else to pick one up. CNN just pointed out there is a law in place banning the federal government from doing gun research. Anyone else find that completely fucked? The way it went down, considering the arab-y names thrown earlier, it wouldn't surprise me if an ISIS sympathizer or something akin scoped out his job then came back with his pals. I almost hope it is something petty because the wing nuts in this country are going to go full retard tomorrow. Shit could get dangerous.
The pretense to civility has left this country, it was nice while it lasted. Wingnuts might get their bogeyman from this. Moonbats got theirs last week.
ISIS sympathizers is what I'm thinking also. I've seen the names and yeah, it could get real bad, real quick.
They've just released one of the names. Yep. Oh shit. Syed Farook And the Washington Post is reporting he was a devout Muslim.
LA Times named the same suspect. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/...ino-active-shooter-sought-20151202-story.html Yeah, you're right it was the Washington Times, my bad on that. The NY Post, which isn't much better, is reporting the same thing. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...d-calif-massacre-identified-article-1.2453471 “He was very religious. He would go to work, come back, go to pray, come back. He’s Muslim.”
Where the hell can you get any honest factual information anymore? Before ANY details came out, before they had any idea who the suspects were or where they went or what their motive was, I heard a Fox analyst say "I hesitate to use the word terrorism, BUT..." And then I switch to CNN and hear an analyst say "I hesitate to use the word militia, BUT..."
Welp. It was a nice country while it lasted. The ensuing hysteria is going to be deafening. I fear for my country. Reason, education, and accountability are losing a war against ideologues. Dangerous fools unworthy to mop floors walk the same corridors as Lincoln, Eisenhower, and FDR. We learned nothing from what we did to Native Americans, then Chinese immigrants, then Japanese Americans. Treated them as second class citizens, terrorized them, spied on them, legislated against them out of fear, and in the case of the American Indians executed a campaign of genocide. We look now to repeat history in the American Muslim. 150 years after the 14th Amendment we still have public servants, some elected, still persecuting blacks for the genetic happenstance of being born with dark skin. Our infrastructure is crumbling, our healthcare is at a premium, real unemployment is 8-10%, wages have been stagnant for 30 years, the middle class vanishing. We have a supreme court which, albeit narrowly, allowed corporations the rights of a citizen with none of the culpability. Our education system has been sold to profit minded corporations with only a facetious pretense about quality or efficacy. We have allowed our classrooms to be subverted by bureaucracy. We are going to continue to allow fear to erode our personal rights, and that same fear embroil us in more ill conceived wars where the only outcome will be burdening our children with unpayable debt and more death. Fear and misinformation, both powerful tools being used in the media and by savagely ignorant fools, are going to try incredibly hard to take the white house next year. After instances like today, if the worst is true, I fear those sentiments might succeed. Steinbeck wrote "Nothing good gets away." I agree, but ascribe a more ominous tone.
I'm wondering if this won't be a bit of a litmus test. Will there actually be deafening hysteria, or will it just appear that way because of the way the media will go ape shit over it? How many people that you actually know will behave in the manner that I have no doubt will be portrayed and fostered by the media? They don't cover "normal", because normal is boring and doesn't sell marketing spots. So they cover the extreme edge cases and promote that as the norm, when it's not. Just like any hysterical person, at some point they are going to wind themselves up so much that they need a slap in the face to get them settled back down again... and I think the that will happen to the 24 hour news machines. It'll be interesting to see what event will be that trigger.
The TV media creates a good racket. But the internet sources are just as loud and far more varied. The real nutjobs lurk online. They're out there. Occasionally they get together to effectively vote in a state rep. A few 4 channers shot up a BLM protest in MN (ironically it was their internet presence that got them caught I think). Another just got pinched in an FBI weapons sting for amassing an arsenal to "kill minorities." Right now I have no hope and less faith in my fellow countrymen. I do not know the actual number of Trump supporters, but it is far more than it has any right to be. With a little luck the majority of people are as disaffected and lazy as the people I personally know.
Trump, Carson, Cruz, Clinton, Sanders.......It will come down to two out of that group. When forced to choose between the lesser of two evils, you have already lost.
The Democratic primary is down to Sanders and Clinton you're right, but the Republican field is far from settled. Trump, Carson and Cruz are all fighting for the same wingnut arm, but the establishment is going to consolidate around another candidate (likely Rubio or a drafted Romney).
Muslims shooters? Hmm. Well we can rest assured that Barack will immediately clam up about gun control, remind everyone that not all Muslims are terrorists, and go back to claiming global warming is the most immediate threat to national security without actually doing anything substantive. As for candidates... I think it's gonna be Rubio vs Clinton. Sanders is retarded and too old. Unless there's a significant event that changes things, the democrats won't win with him. He's essentially liked by people who don't know anything about economics and are too stupid to care. They just like lip service. Hillaretard is the heir apparent for the democrats, which is surprising because her health is kind of an issue too. She had a stroke or something not too long ago, right? But no one will mention that because she's too big a cunt and the political machine will slap them around. A little surprised the democrats are just letting her run things, that's a lot of chips on one horse. As for Trump, people wanted a candidate that's not bought and paid for, well there ya go. People that are unscripted sometimes say some so whacked out shit. At least you'll know what you're getting. But he's too abrasive, says some cringy shit, and doesn't really have any ideas with substance. Cruz is too evangelical. We need an adult as president, not some alter boy with gigantism. Is he even nautralized? Rubio is probably the most well-rounded for the republicans. His debate skills need work though. And he needs to not drink water during a speech. I highly doubt Romney is coming out for the candidacy, but who knows. Carson, Christie, Kasich are done.
If the 350+ other mass murders this year didn't act as a litmus test, I assure you that this one will be similarly talked to death and then promptly ignored. I love my Yankee Doodle friends but your country is imploding and I'm past feeling sympathetic.
Its not, though. Nett is right, the media is portraying things that way. Violent crime and overall crime rates are lower now than they have been in the past 40+ years and continue to drop year-after-year. These incidence of explosive violence may have an uptick and get a ton of attention, but its still not enough to change the downward trend. Outside of US media, international outfits have a vested interest in cutting the US down for appearances, so they will report accordingly. Even gun crimes have been trending downward. The doom and gloom is myopic. On a global scale, things are more peaceful now than they have ever been.
Sadly, the only thing that I'm seeing out of this tragedy is how deeply and thoroughly our country is divided. As soon as the news of the shooting was reported the Left was screaming Stop White Terrorism!, Trump Supporters!. Gun Control! Bernie, Hillary, and Obama all came out with statements telling us how bad guns are before any facts were in. When it came out that the shooters were Muslim, instead of taking a breath, the Left immediately went into damage control mode of Not All Muslims! Gun Control! We can't call this terrorism yet! The same people that hours early were calling it white terrorism. And over on the Right? They're treating this like a political victory with the See? We were right! Not so long ago, a national tragedy such as this would bring people together in mourning. Now? Everyone is trying to twist the narrative to fit with the party they align themselves with. Never mind the 14 dead, 17 injured and the grieving families and loved ones, they need to make sure their voice is louder then the other sides. I heard, and this is just from an unconfirmed news report so take it for what it's worth, that one of the suspect's neighbors had seen a lot of unusual behavior at the suspects house over the past few weeks. She didn't report it because she didn't want to be shamed as an Islamphobic. True or not, it does show where we are right now if a story such as this is feasible. This country is broken and I don't know if it can be fixed. Reason, humanity, & compassion are gone, replaced with political ideology.
In the next 48 hours, more people will die in car crashes in California than were killed in the shootings. It will happen again every 48 hours for the rest of the year. I don't make that point to say we should ban cars; it's just a contrast between the relative danger. The shootings are scary and they make great news, but a person's chances of being shot in an incident like that are infinitesimal. Our country is not imploding. As Juice pointed out, all crimes, even gun crimes, are on a downward trend historically. And with over 300 million guns in the hands of private citizens in the U.S., it would seem we're pretty damn responsible with our weapons.
Gun crime may be trending down, but the US has had 48,000 gun related incidents with 12,000 deaths THIS year. Down from 51k last year. So, uhh, progress? That's a stupid number for a 1st world super power. There are people on FB crowing about illegal weapons. Eight out of the last 14 mass shootings had legally purchased weapons: http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/10/03/us/how-mass-shooters-got-their-guns.html Most gun violence (accidental) is done in a domestic setting with legal guns. When a person is arrested they must go through due process to restore or confirm their rights. When a person is sued for slander/libel they must go through due process to protect the free speech rights of one of the parties involved. WHHHYYYYY is the right to own a weapon given less due process than any other right? Why is gun ownership so exceptional? How is a 1-2 week background check so catastrophic? The rhetoric around it is just plain wrong. You want to unite the country again? Jobs and healthcare and fair tax code. I really do think it is that "simple." We invest within our boarders. Develop a quality of life like the 50s into the 70s. We invest in technology, education, and building. That is the only thing I can think of. Because the media machine got the rubes frothing and it has created some absolutely incompetent political creatures (elected, in media, and otherwise) who want to continue to divide us and crater the government. I happen to like our government for the most part. It's not meant to be perfect, but when it is funded properly it works and is probably the biggest employer.
You are right. That is a stupid and unacceptable number. But, there are other fair questions to be asked for the discussion. How many of those deaths are because of incidents like yesterday's tragedy versus gang shootings or robberies or home invasions or home accidents? Is the media highlighting the correct issues? What problems are we or our politicians trying to solve? Because people feel that when they are armed the can become equals to potential oppressors in power. (Although, I would argue that freedom of speech is MORE exceptional.) What do you mean by this? I honestly don't know what you mean. When the Brady bill passed in 1993, it implemented a 5 day background check. This doesn't impact me, because I have a permit, so I'm not sure what you're asking. Are you saying, what would be wrong with changing it from 5 days to 2 weeks?