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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. MoreCowbell

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    Well every time they come by to do so she um... offers them something.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    Just your normal perk found at any Native Casino Gift Shop. Right beside the decorative head dresses and dream catchers.
     
  3. Pinkcup

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    Hey, if the government fucked me out of my land and my way of life for centuries and then shunted me into a shithole where the only real commodity is my heritage and other economic prospects were limited.....well, I'd be selling whatever stupid white folk were willing to buy, from the dirty britches covering my ass to replicas of my sacred religious garments and other assorted items. Can't be high minded when you need to eat.
     
  4. Kampf Trinker

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    I love how you immediately need to seize this alternative explanation of desperation rather than the obvious they're not nearly as offended as you are for them.
     
  5. The Village Idiot

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    Now of course, being educated as you are on such matters, you're fully aware that Native Americans did all of the above things to each other long before Columbus and Co. showed up on the scene, right? So is it ok for Native Americans to wear feathers, or would they be insulting their 'fellow' Native Americans because their tribe may have been murdered and assfucked by the other?

    The point is while it is important to learn the lessons that history has to teach us, which we do precious little of - just see the recent Presidential primaries where the same old tired policies and justifications get dragged out with a new wrapper despite the fact that they've been tried and proven failures - but what you can't do is undo or change history. Ultimately, that's where this nonsense is leading. Like somehow, if we are politically correct to the Native Americans, they'll magically be restored to their former 'glory' - which wasn't all that glorious.

    Can I wear a toga? Or would I be insulting Romans? You do know they were raped and pillaged too, right? Can I wear a fake earring? Or is that making fun of African tribes that used them as status symbols? How about fake nails? Or would I be insulting the Chinese that were working class under the Imperial Dynasties? How about a Red Coat, or would the English get upset at being reminded about their loss of a colony. Maybe a Pablo Escobar outfit? Or would that be insulting to the citizens of Columbia whom were killed and oppressed by the Columbian government at the behest of the Medellin Cartel? How about Batman? He's killed innocent people. Am I rubbing it in the faces of Comic Book lovers whom are distraught? How about a priest? Or would that be insulting to the millions of innocent civilians killed during the Crusades? Maybe a skull cap and a Koran? Or would the families of bombing victims be insulted? In short, where does it end? I can pretty much find something 'insulting' about any outfit if I really try hard enough.

    The problem with your view is that the 'insult' is purely derived from the mindset of the person insulted without any attention as to whether whatever the person was dressed up as meant it as an insult. In short, when the inmates run the asylum, it's Mac and Cheese every night, and damnit, sometimes you need broccoli.
     
  6. Dcc001

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    I'll link something later if I have the time - but at least in Canada, the per capita spending on each full status native person is OBSCENELY higher than the per capita government spending on anyone else. In the last century the spending per person has increased by an order of magnitude greater for native folks than it has for anyone else. Also, there is an appalling amount of money spent on remote reserves just to keep them going, but the reserve leaders are not under the jurisdiction of the Federal government. So you have rampant corruption and nepotism. Look at the Attanawapaskat "tragedy." They declare a state of emergency, they have no shelter and the few hundred people there are starving and in danger of dying from exposure. An investigation revealed that $90 million in transfer payments had occurred, specifically to be used for infrastructure and healthcare. But no infrastructure or healthcare had been implemented. Where did that money go? Tough to tell when the band's chief is married to the band's financial officer and neither will allow the government to look at the books.

    Also, at least in Canada, native people have preferential treatment when applying for school and jobs. Living on a reserve is living tax free. Anyone could easily choose to move off the economically impoverished reservation, get an education (with massive scholarships and grants available to them), get a job (where they specifically beg for native applicants) and work and pay taxes. Or you could stay on the reserve, have your life paid for and have kids whenever you need more money.

    The way their culture was treated historically is deplorable. You cannot discount poor leadership within the community and over dependence on government money for how some of them live now, though.
     
  7. AbsentMindedProf

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    I know I'm a little behind the discussion, but I feel these needs to be talked about more. I think as a white guy it's very difficult to recognize the advantages we have in our society, because they are so ingrained. Also, no matter who you are it takes significant effort to become successful in life. Being a white male won't magically make you a CEO or give a you a six figure paycheck. Those two factors are what make guys bristle at the implication that we're at fault for all the worlds woes. We personally are just trying to live happy, healthy lives and typically aren't try to repress anybody. However, the historical power base has generally over represented us, and set up a culture where it is easier for us to succeed. Please don't confuse easier with easy. The point isn't that you don't deserve whatever you achieved in life, it's recognizing that the way things are set up currently it takes more effort for women and people of color to achieve the same thing. As white guys we're pinch runners starting on first base, and the rest of the people are still at the plate trying to get a hit. It's still gonna be hard for us to score, but easier than the people still at the plate. This is the perspective I try to keep in mind when the discussion of inequality comes up. People aren't insulting me personally by saying that white males are privileged, they're insulting the society that's been set up. Do you really think it's a bad thing to level the playing field? Shouldn't everybody have the same chance to succeed or fail based on their own motivation, intelligence and tenacity?
     
    #1827 AbsentMindedProf, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  8. downndirty

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    White privilege is summed up by saying the absence of the possibility of prejudice.

    I'm thinking of a white coworker who married an Indian guy in their traditions and another one who married a Korean guy in a similar fashion. Being outside of ones own culture is almost always positive, and rarely "safe".

    Instead of focusing on shit like Halloween costumes and statues, why is this fight not directed towards actual Slavery or institutional racism?

    To say that white men are part of the problem to me is the flip side of Trumps coin in saying that "insert minority" is a problem.
     
  9. Kampf Trinker

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    Just so everyone is clear on our Yale campus heroes. Skip to 3:30 for full crazy.



    I think they do the finger snapping thing because clapping creates a stressful environment. These people are so fucked up.
     
  10. AFHokie

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    Been busy and just now getting caught up with some threads so this is a little old:

    That's Fairbanks Northstar Borough, AK. Home to Fort Wainwright as well as Eielson AFB & Fort Greely. My assumption's they're military or DoD civilians assigned to those facilities.
     
  11. Popped Cherries

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    No the snapping is done because clapping is a micro aggression. Not even slightly joking.
     
  12. Nom Chompsky

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    No snowflake in an avalanche ever feels responsible*, y'know?


    *Stanislaw Jerzy Lec
     
  13. Parker

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    Before I get into specifics, let me highlight what AbsentmindedProf said. Also, let me be absolutely fucking clear here, I'm not saying or implying, neither are the Yale protesters or the overall BLM movement think white people are the problems to everything. I'm also keeping my commentary to America.

    Very simple. History. Black people never shit on white people in a massive historic or systematic fashion. In America, white people can laugh and move on because they're the majority and on top. Who were signing the checks to both of those guys?

    Choosing to be offended? There is no choice here. There is a difference between the new "offended" and not wanting to have your culture attacked in any form. What happens if someone completely fucked with your family and systematically handicapped your life? If you got upset, would you be choosing to be offended? Let's have a kid dress up as a Boston bomber victim at the marathon next year. Or dress up as a murdered child and hangout in Sandy Hook. That should be perfectly fine, those people and children are just CHOOSING to be offended. There isn't anything inherently wrong as a human being with that action. If they got upset, it was a choice.

    It should be tangible and realistic for people not to be assholes to other people just because of their background/culture. If that's not realistic, then we're fucked. And people who think it is unrealistic is fucked. What they should choose to do is not be assholes, because you don't have a right to be assholes to people.

    Well can I come to your parents or loved ones funeral, dress up as them and have you choose not to be offended? Let me know, I love Canada. Being offended by a dick joke and being insulted at the core of your being are two different things. Equating them is being obstinate at best.

    One other thing everyone keeps forgetting about every single incident. Every single time something like this happens, everyone said "But this ONE person just did this ONE thing, it's not a big deal." Every single incident like this is another straw. You need to stop looking at the trees and see the forest. It goes from this professor, to the shooting in the church, back to Jim Crow and to Slavery. Nothing is in a vacuum. This incident is just in another line. And the Yale Students are handling the problem they can handle.

    There rarely is anymore hard racism, it is shit like this. It is not okay to do certain things because of history. The Hatfields can't dress up as the McCoys for Halloween. It's that fucking simple. Professors at prestigious universities can't tell already entitled and coddled white people that it's okay to go out and be assholes.

    Those students aren't shitting on Free Speech, they're shitting on stupidity. Freedom of Speech is saying "I think Cats are better than Dogs." "I think hotdogs are better than hamburgers." It is NOT looking at a chair and saying it's a car. It is not saying the Earth is flat. It is not saying airplanes are birds in the sky. The stuff people have been saying for years and getting away with as THEY are the ones who are entitled and coddled has been going on for too long. People are fed up with it and doing something about it. Yes the snapping / micro aggression shit is stupid.

    Just like ODEN said about "How can you tell me what it's like to be a white male?" White male's can't tell people they can't be offended and being offended by racist shit means nothing. That is some hypocritical privileged shit right there.This shit isn't being made up. Black people aren't complaining about the Chinese oppressing them. Native Americans aren't complaining that Middle Easterners are fucking with their culture. Where there is smoke and there is fire. Right now, people are making s'mores and acting like there isn't a fire.
     
    #1833 Parker, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  14. Parker

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    How much negative impact does it take to become an issue? Freedom of Speech could be systematically creating a narrative in your family that you hate them, at your job that you don't do any work and your friends that you're sleeping with their spouses. I could completely alienate you from everyone you know and love if I tried hard enough. That could result in you starting your life over, being homeless and broke. It's fully in my right to do that, and it's just me expressing my freedom of speech. Freedom of Speech should not be used to hold this country, or this world, back. It's free speech for Jenny McCarthy to say vaccinations give children autism. Thousands of children can die because of that. Is that right? She's just using freedom of speech. We should just let her do this.

    Everything has to do with everything. If everything is good then nothing is good. There are bad ideas out there, that are harmful, and they need to be minimized immediately. It's smart, moral and educated people who want to see the world improve that will critically think about the differences. Things that lead to a body count and systematic oppression of the right every human being on this planet has to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. I can't fathom why there is resistance to this, I mean, there is research to why there is resistance of this but I'm still learning about it myself.
     
    #1834 Parker, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  15. Popped Cherries

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    Actually, yes. As unfortunate it is that she has a platform to speak her mind about an issue like vaccinations, she has every right to do so. The great thing, I have every right to think she is a fucking idiot and not believe a word she says on the subject.

    That's a really fucked up point of view I really hope you don't believe.
     
  16. Parker

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    How is this a fucked up point of view? Slavery was once a harmful idea that needed to be minimized immediately. There was also the practice in Scotland of the King of England fucking newlywed women, that was a harmful idea that needed to be minimized immediately. The idea that one race of people are superior than another is a harmful idea that needs to be minimized immediately. Do you disagree with any of these? Those are the types of ideas I'm talking about here ones that infringe on the unassailable right of life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

    We're not talking about censorship here. We're talking about having people not like assholes. That is a huge difference. There is a difference between sharing opinions and saying words that can damage or harm people. Shouting "There is a shooter here!" in a movie theater isn't protected by Freedom of Speech because of the damage it can cause. There are a lot of racial versions of that, in which it does not count as censorship.
     
    #1836 Parker, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  17. gamecocks

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    You're confusing ideas (words) with actions. As abhorrent as those ideas are, you're free to express them. Speak against them for sure, but you shouldn't censor them.
     
  18. Parker

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    We as a people, should be looking at history and our better selves to determine this. Let's not get too abstract here. Group A loses nothing if they can't call Group B pieces of shit. Group A loses nothing if they don't act like assholes. It's not censorship if I can't call your loved one a cunt. It's called not being an asshole. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't be assholes.

    Actions start from ideas. The only way slavery could be enacted and carried out for years was the basis that those people were inferior. That idea was seeded and bred in a multitude of ways, then it lead to action.

    Also, minimized means reduced, not deleted or erased. Made very, very small, so we can look upon it and think "That's what we should NOT be doing" when we do the right thing. Just like the idea that the Earth is flat. It's not censored, but it's minimized. If we did that to racism and then sexism, we'd be on a much much better planet.
     
  19. gamecocks

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    Minimized in the context you speak of is censoring. I am against the censoring of speech. I'll back you up on minimizing as far as using your own voice to speak out against what you disagree with, but not the way you're going about it.
     
  20. Parker

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    Well debates need to end eventually right? There are right and wrong answers right? Progress happens when we figure out the correct approach. The wrong approach gets minimized. One side argues the world is flat, the other argues the world is a sphere. Debate ensues, and after gathering experience and information, we learn the world is a sphere. The world is flat idea gets minimized. It still exists, people can bring it up, but I want to move racism to the same bucket as "the world is flat". Is that a problem? Can we all agree that's a great idea? That doing that would be progress?

    I'm not talking censorship, I'm talking about people not being assholes to other human beings that they aren't inherently superior to. Can we all agree to that?