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But Seriously...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Juice, Jun 19, 2015.

  1. Nom Chompsky

    Nom Chompsky
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    The crazy thing is none of this has anything to do with free speech
     
  2. dixiebandit69

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    Not in South Texas. I've been discriminated against plenty because I'm white, most notably in the job field.
     
  3. xrayvision

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    You sure it has nothing to do with checking off that one box?
     
  4. Kubla Kahn

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    [​IMG]
     
  5. Parker

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    Shit, I feel straw manned. Yeah, none of this has to do with free speech. It's about racial equality and not being racist assholes, because it's the wrong thing to do. It constantly getting called something else ridiculous.
     
  6. ODEN

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    The point is it is unconscious bias and it goes both ways. I am limited in my insight in to what it means to be black in America to the same degree that you are limited in your insight in to what it means to be white. Show me something rooted in fact that this actually exists, instead of opinions and false equivalencies.

    I won't sit here and try to lecture you or reason with you but it seems like people around here are a little bit mistaken about how this system works; this is the land of opportunity, not equality.
     
  7. ghettoastronaut

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    I like to refer back to Christopher Hitchens on the subject of offensiveness.



     
  8. TX.

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    As an aside, I, for one, want the racist, sexist, unsavory assholes of the world to please speak up. You think the world is flat? You have an archaic view of science or gender issues? Please, let that racist/ignorant freak flag fly. It makes it all the easier to distinguish you from people who I want to befriend, marry, hire, etc. It's no skin off my nose if you're an asshole or just plain stupid. It makes the rest of us look more normal.
     
  9. Nom Chompsky

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    I guess I was unclear.

    Students getting annoyed at a professor and demonstrating at a University has nothing to do with free speech as a fundamental value of this country. Either Yale thinks it's worth fighting or it doesn't, but that's not a free speech issue any more than me getting fired for singing "MY BIG BLACK NUTS TASTE LIKE HERSHEY KISSES" during the all-company lunch meeting was.
     
  10. toytoy88

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    Alone in the dark, drooling on himself

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  11. Crown Royal

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    I have a feeling this Daniel Holtzclaw trial is going south.

    For those unfamiliar, Holtzclaw is a cop in Oklahoma who "allegedly" raped at least nine black women on duty. He chose women w/ drug abuse history or criminal records so "they wouldn't report it". The victims don't know each other, came forward on their own and the jury is STILL out after two whole days. Every victim was defamed and raked over the coals while he didn't even testify. There is NO WAY he did not assault these women.

    This is a slam-dunk guilty verdict but because it's a cop on trial he might not even be found guilty. Unbelievable.
     
  12. Crown Royal

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    The issue with the Yale students is not what he cause is, not what the insult is, it's the facts that they're fakes. That little bitch screaming in an Ivy professors face like a psychotic junk yard dog? Rich and has never had to worry or work for anything in her entire life. The guy who did the hunger strike at Mizzou? His family is richer than fuck. Fact.

    Maybe it would be easier to sympathize with these students if 1) They weren't doing it for the attention which they are, 2) They had a single smart or reasonable person to represent them. They're immature, spoiled fucks who have never known hardship and yet claim to know how the world works. Really, you feel racially threatened behind the walls of your $875,000 home? The FUCK you do.

    Beliefs and ideas are not people, they don't have rights. People have rights and no rights have been threatened at these campuses. The cause, the general idea here IS valiant but they are NOT valiant at Yale or Mizzou because they're a bunch of thin-skinned fakes. Watch interviews with the reps of these little soirées and witness them make complete stupid assholes of themselves and get owned. No evidence, no proof, but if you scream in a person's face that means you won the arguement.
     
  13. Nom Chompsky

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    An excellent point. I read somewhere that he only wears clothing made out of his parents' tax returns, so people know right away not to be racist to him. I don't know why more people don't do that, and if Forrest Whitaker isn't going to wear the "I'm worth $15 million" sandwich board I made for him, I'm taking it back.
     
  14. Kubla Kahn

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    Too be fair he does look like a vagrant but it's not like they let Rip Torn slide when he broke into that bank to take a nap.
     
  15. Parker

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    The following article is written by a white person, who has a Ph.D and has studied for 20 years what it means to be White in America. This person travels the country holding workshops all over the country every day. This person has done this for years. This person does not have an agenda except to do research and learn. If anyone is an expert in this topic, it is this person.

    They published a paper called that is very long, data driven and has all the research methods. Here is their summary breakdown of it "White Fragility: Why It's So Hard To Talk To White People About Racism". Everyone should read it and we can discuss the ideas presented in the link. Here is an interview with that same professor. As any other conversation has been focused on shitting on college kids, without providing any constructive criticism or better alternatives. Which is interesting, because the lack of constructive criticism and the overall response of "shut up and go home" is indirectly explained in the above article.
     
  16. ODEN

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    Parker, I read the article. I read the article the last time it was brought up. This is a victimologist telling people that in her learned opinion, victimology is a real science. That, by the way, is her agenda; her pay check depends on making people believe it's real. It's garbage, this is junk science. I am just picking one bolded section from the article:

    What basis is there for this statement? This is an opinion statement, not a fact. I don't give a fuck that she has a PhD in a bullshit social science, it doesn't make it real. An astrophysicist can say that the moon is made from green cheese, it doesn't make it so.
     
  17. Parker

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    Here is the basis for all her statements. You know more than all these people? Why so defensive? By the way, who are you to determine that it's a bullshit science? Do you study this stuff? The author was published by the University of North Carolina. You want to talk about unconscious biases, this is it buddy.

    Seems like you're exhibiting a lot of the behaviors that she talks about.

    Feeling a lot of pushback and not any discussion.

    American Association of Colleges for Teacher Education (AACTE). (1994). Teacher education pipeline: Schools, colleges, and departments of education. Washington, DC: Allen, D. (1996). Knowledge, politics, culture, and gender: A discourse perspective. Canadian Journal of Nursing Research, 28(1), 95-102. Bourdieu, P. (1993). The Field of Cultural Production. New York: Columbia University Press. Bonilla-Silva, E. (2006). Racism without racists: Color-blind racism and the persistence of racial inequality in the United States (2nd ed). New York: Rowman & Littlefield. 68 • International Journal of Critical Pedagogy Casey J. Dawkins. (2004). Recent Evidence on the Continuing Causes of Black-White Residential Segregation. Journal of Urban Affairs, 26(3), 379-400. Clark, K.B. (1963). Prejudice and your child. Boston: Beacon Press. Derman-Sparks, L., & Phillips, C. (1997). Teaching/learning anti-racism: A developmental approach. New York: Teachers College Press. Derman-Sparks, L., Ramsey, P. & Olsen Edwards, J. (2006). What If All the Kids Are White?: Anti-bias Multicultural Education With Young Children And Families. New York: Teachers College Press. DiAngelo, Robin J. (2010a). Why Can’t We All Just Be Individuals?: Countering the Discourse of Individualism in Anti-racist Education. InterActions: UCLA Journal of Education and Information Studies, 6(1) . Retrieved from http://escholarship.org/uc/ item/5fm4h8wm DiAngelo, R. (2006b). My race didn’t trump my class: Using oppression to face privilege. Multicultural Perspectives, 8(1), 51-56. DiAngelo, R. (2006c). “I’m leaving!”: White fragility in racial dialogue. In B. McMahon & D. Armstrong (Eds.), Inclusion in Urban Educational Environments: Addressing Issues of Diversity, Equity, and Social Justice (pp. 213-240). Centre for Leadership and Diversity. Ontario Institute for Studies in Education of the University of Toronto. Doane, A.W. (1997). White identity and race relations in the 1990s. In Carter, G.L. (Ed), Perspectives on Current Social Problems, edited by (pp. 151-159). Boston: Allyn and Bacon. Dyer, R. (1997). White. New York: Routledge. Feagin, J. R. (2006). Systematic Racism: A theory of oppression. New York: Routledge. Fine, M. (1997). Witnessing Whiteness. In M. Fine, L. Weis, C. Powell, & L. Wong, (Eds.), Off White: Readings on race, power, and society (pp. 57-65). New York: Routledge. Fine, M. (1997). Introduction. In M. Fine, L. Weis, C. Powell & L. Wong (Eds.), Off White: Readings on race, power and society (p. vii-xii). New York: Routledge. Flax, J. (1998). American dream in Black and White: The Clarence Thomas hearings. New York: Cornell University Press. Frankenberg, E., Lee, C. & Orfield, G. (2003). A multiracial society with segregated schools: Are we losing the dream? The Civil Rights Project. Retrieved from http:// www.civilrightsproject.ucla.edu/research/reseg03/reseg03_full.php. Frankenberg, R. (1997). Introduction: Local Whitenesses, localizing Whiteness. In R. Frankenberg (Ed.), Displacing Whiteness: Essays in social and cultural criticism (pp. 1-33.). Durham, NC: Duke University Press. Frankenberg, R. (1993). The social construction of Whiteness: White women, race matters. Minneapolis: University of Minnesota Press. Frakenberg, R. (2001). Mirage of an unmarked Whiteness. In B. Rasmussen, E. Klinerberg, I. Nexica, M. Wray (Ed.), The making and unmaking of Whiteness (pp. 72-96). Durham, NC: Duke University Press. Gee, J.P. (1999). An introduction to discourse analysis: Theory and method. London: Routledge. Goldberg, D.T. (1993). Racist culture. Oxford, England: Blackwell. Hilliard, A. (1992). Racism: Its origins and how it works. Paper presented at the meeting of the Mid-West Association for the Education of Young Children, Madison, WI. hooks, b. (1995). Killing rage. New York: Henry Holt & Company. hooks, b. (1992). Black looks: Race and representation. Boston, MA: South End Press. Horton, J. & Scott, D. (2004). White students’ voices in multicultural teacher education preparation. Multicultural Education, 11(4) Retreived from http://findarticles.com/p/ articles/mi_qa3935/is_200407/ai_n9414143/ White Fragility • 69 Johnson, H.B. & Shapiro, T.M. (2003). Good Neighborhoods, Good Schools: Race and the “Good Choices” of White Families. In Doane, A.W & Bonilla-Silva, E. (Eds). White Out: The Continuing Significance of Racism (pp. 173-187). New York: Routledge. Lee, T. (1996). Unraveling the “model-minority” stereotype: Listening to Asian-American youth. New York: Teachers College Press. Macedo, D., & Bartolome, L. (1999). Dancing with bigotry: Beyond the politics of tolerance. New York: St. Martin’s Press. McGowan, J. (2000). Multicultural teaching: African-American faculty classroom teaching experiences in predominantly White colleges and universities. Multicultural Education, 8(2), 19-22. McIntosh, P. (1988). White privilege and male privilege: A personal account of coming to see correspondence through work in women’s studies. In M. Anderson, & P. Hill Collins (Eds.), Race, class, and gender: An anthology (pp. 94-105). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth. Mills, C. (1999). The racial contract. NY: Cornell University Press. Morrison, T. (1992). Playing in the dark. New York: Random House. Nagda, B., Zuniga, X., & Sevig, T. (2002). Bridging differences through peer facilitated intergroup dialogues. In S. Hatcher (Ed.), Peer programs on a college campus: Theory, training, and the voices of the peers (pp. 25-41). San Diego, CA: New Resources. Nakayama, T., & Martin, J. (1999). Whiteness: The communication of social identity. Thousand Oakes, CA: Sage. O’Donnell, J. (1998). Engaging students’ recognition of racial identity. In Chavez, R.C. & O’Donnell, J. (Eds.), Speaking the unpleasant: the politics of (non) engagement in the multicultural education terrain (pp. 56-68). Albany, NY: State University of New York Press. Omi, M. & Winant, H. (1986). Racial Formtion in the United States. New York: Routledge. Powell, L. (1997). The achievement (k)not: Whiteness and ‘Black Underachievement’. In M. Fine, L. Powell, C. Weis, & L. Wong (Eds.), Off White: Readings on race, power and society (pp. 3 -12). New York: Routledge. Sleeter, C. (1993). How White teachers construct race. In C. McCarthy & W. Crichlow (Eds.), Race identity and representation in education (pp.157-171). New York: Routledge. Sleeter, C. (1996). White silence, White solidarity. In N. Ignatiev, & J. Garvey (Eds.), Race Traitors. New York: Routledge. Smith, Andrea (2005). Conquest: Sexual violence and American Indian genocide. Cambridge, MA: Southend Press. Snyder, T. (1998). Digest of Education Statistics. Washington, DC: National Center for Education Statistics, Department of Education. Tatum, B. (1997). “Why are all the black kids sitting together in the cafeteria?”: And other conversations about race. New York: Basic Books. Trepagnier, B. (2006). Silent racism: How well-meaning white people perpetuate the racial divide. Boulder, CO: Paridigm Publishers. Van Dijk, T.A. (1993). Principles of critical discourse analysis. Discourse and Society, 4(2), 249-283. Van Dijk, T.A. (1993). Analyzing racism through discourse analysis: Some methodological reflections. In J. H. Stanfield, & R. M. Dennis (Eds.), Race and ethnicity in research method (pp.92-134). London: Sage. Vodde, R. (2001). De-centering privilege in social work education: Whose job is it anyway? Journal of Race, Gender and Class, 7(4), 139-160 70 • International Journal of Critical Pedagogy Weber, L. (2001). Understanding race, class, gender, and sexuality: A conceptual framework. New York: McGraw-Hill. Wells, L. (1985). A group-as-a-whole perspective and its theoretical roots. In A. Coleman, & M. Geller (Eds.), Group Relations Reader 2 (22-34). Washington, D.C.: A.K. Rice Institute. Whitehead, K.A. & Wittig, M.A. (2005). Discursive Management of Resistance to a Multicultural Education Programme. Qualitative Research in Psychology,1(3), pp. 267- 284. Wing Sue, D. (2003). Overcoming our racism: The journey to liberation. San Francisco: Jossey-Bass. Wise, T. (2003). Whites swim in racial preference. Retrieved from http://www.academic. udayton.edu/race/04needs/affirm20.htm. Yamamoto, G. (2001). Something about this subject makes it hard to name. In M. Andersen, & P. H. Collins (Eds.), Race, class and gender: An Anthology (pp. 89-93). Belmont, CA: Wadsworth. Zúñiga, X., Nagda, B., & Sevig, T. (2002). Intergroup dialogues: An educational model for cultivating engagement across differences. Equity & Excellence in Education, 6(1), 115-132.
     
    #1857 Parker, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  18. Nom Chompsky

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    White people will never experiencee racial acceptance until they are allowed to say every word in the rap song, just like everyone else

    "ball so hard motherfuckas wanna fine me/but first these fellers have to find me" just sounds plain terrible
     
  19. Crown Royal

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    Race is a touchier subject than ever, people at the same time relent is discussing it yet can't shut up about it. It's like being in a dead-end relationship with an idiot: it never goes anywhere and creates almost nothing but pain for everyone but every once in a while it provides a cheap thrill to look forward to. People also relent because society's unwanted referee, the SJW, will soon arrive in their red boots and cape to tell everyone how to think the issue. And if that opinion differs, the pile-on of life destroying commences. Saying the wrong thing can ruin your life these days and it seems the only people truly reigning in these crazies are Trey Parker and Matt Stone.

    I live in a place where it's much less of an issue than in America but shit still happens here and there, I've met SHITLOADS of grotesquely racist Canadians in my life, especially towards natives. I'll say this: We will be dead for 2000 years before racism ends. For thousands of years our race, the human race, has been taught that different is bad. We proved that from the start by the Homo sapiens eradicating Neanderthals. And nowadays and particularly in America beliefs are grown on the knees of too many stupid parents. Parents who breed hate and use gear to keep them in line. Every child, in one way or another idolizes their parents. They taught you everything, how to walk and talk--- they must know everything if I know nothing, right?

    It's not the ridiculous heart-on-your-sleeve racism that groups like the Aryans or the KKK promote. It's subtle things like "Blacks are genetically predisposed to outlaw behaviour." When you tell a very young and naive person that, it sounds palatable to them. And if somebody speaks against it as naturally they will, they'll back it up. "Well, look at the crime statistics."

    Yes, look at the crime statistics. It shows that per capita black people commit more crime. What they don't do is look at the everything statistics that tell you that during the 400 years before 1980 black people got the shit end of the stick. They still do in many ways, if you don't believe me follow one into into your nearest police station. When an entire race doesn't get ANY piece of the pie for four centuries it doesn't exactly flick a switch and meshes with the dominant mass. Especially when said dominant mass has been largely taught to be scared of them. I thought my Grandfather was a great guy to me, but he also referred to black people as "darkies" and clearly remember him once calling to a black waiter "Hey, Jackson!" to get his attention. He was my nice grandfather, he only killed a dozen or so people.

    Racism will end with lots and lots and lots of time while this simmering mistrust slowly bleeds away AND more importantly while we simultaneously keeping fucking each other, as science says eventually we'll all be a healthy beige, 6'10 and hairless. Like tanned versions of the Engineers from Prometheus (or normal Vin Diesel) And maybe in my resurrected life then I'll be able to dress as a Ranchero dude for Halloween again or do Yoga.
     
    #1859 Crown Royal, Dec 9, 2015
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  20. downndirty

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    All of this is moot if you don't believe that belonging to a non-majority culture makes you a victim of...something. Being a minority doesn't equate to being a victim. Possessing any particular descriptor other than perhaps handicapped doesn't equate to victim-hood. When you are a victim of discrimination IN REAL LIFE that should be addressed. There are too many people in this world who are missing teeth, or have had forced sex or are starving to death to worry about "micro aggressions". We're still working on the plain old fashioned aggression and we don't have time for hurt feelings.

    One other thing: all history is colored with atrocities. Black, white, etc. I struggle to see how I am supposed to re-shape the world I'm in to make up for awful things that happened before I got here. Progress is being made, bringing up things like slavery and making demands isn't helpful because....well, that's not presenting a problem with a potential solution. I dislike the fact that a bunch of our former presidents owned slaves, but that's the world they inhabited. It's different now, that's positive but we can't judge them by our standards, we just have to keep raising our own standards. If you feel so strongly about slavery, how about you spend some time or money helping break victims of sex trafficking out of that particular nightmare? If racism is your hot-button issue, why not design an application that scrubs racial or cultural data from job/loan applications? Or since you're in college, do some research and FIND ACTUAL RACISM AND FIGURE OUT HOW TO NEUTRALIZE IT. It's like pointing at VW or Adidas or Chanel and expecting them in 2015 to apologize for the Holocaust. It's not fixing any sort of problem, it's paying lip service to appease a mob run wild.

    I can get behind the systemic problems attributed to racism, like having an unfair time getting a job, paying higher interest rates, etc. Those are problems that are a result of racism and they need to be addressed. Now, if not yesterday.

    Do minorities get a raw deal in America? Compared to a straight, white, Christian male? Yes. Is there anywhere better? Dunno...but you're free to go find out. Are we getting better? Yes. Is it ever going to be perfectly neutral? No, because whatever minority you belong to represents a culture and there are inherent differences in those cultures. We celebrate those differences now, rather than malign them and that's progress. In the meantime, grown ups have actual problems to solve, and we don't get our panties in a bunch because history has complex figures, or that costumes of stereotypes are funny.