We all say it, just when black people aren't around. I shout every fucking word on Doggystyle because that album is the tightest shit ever made. Just not when black people are around. Every white person that likes hip-hop does it, black people know this because they aren't stupid, the ride never ends.
Well the first step is DEFINITELY to get super dismissive and defensive whenever anybody from an affected group brings up a potential issue, so we're doing pretty well. I'd estimate we're about 8 pages from solving racism altogether, Allah Willing
Mods, can we close every thread on this board that isn't about sex slavery or genocide? I don't feel comfortable with a thread being started complaining about how much crowded bars suck when there are people out there being slaughtered
Feeling pushback? That is to be expected. I read the full article and then started reading through her sources cited. Have you read any of the cited sources, Parker? I bet you haven't. I bet you thought you would list that long list of sources and that would be the end of it. Go read some of the sources and point out some of the science to me. I couldn't find surveys, tests, experiments....anything that approached real empirical data to support the statements made. She reaches some serious conclusions but how would another so-called scientist reach that same conclusion? How would they reproduce her study? Take the section I quoted above and go read her sources cited and tell me what the foundation is for those statements. There isn't one. What I am exhibiting is incredulity at how easily some people are duped or cowed by others without looking for facts.
Nettdata Edit: Stop Shit Posting or you'll take a break. Nom Edit: Stop trampling on my freedom of graph speech
You'd lose that bet, I deep dived into those sources and looked at a quite few of things. I also went into looking for refutations or arguments against the published paper. Also, sociologists as a whole have a problem with replication. Interesting read on that HERE. Basically, it is difficult to replicate anthropological and sociological findings or experiments. It is difficult to scientifically quantify personal experience into academic, hard science data. Funny how you took it upon youself to discredit two of the biggest sciences because it offends you. Which is exactly what you claim everyone else does. The cognitive dissonance is astounding. Clutch, you forgot the fourth option. As discussed in the article "It’s an ongoing and often painful process of seeking to uncover our socialization at its very roots. It asks us to rebuild this identity in new and often uncomfortable ways. But I can testify that it is also the most exciting, powerful, intellectually stimulating and emotionally fulfilling journey I have ever undertaken. It has impacted every aspect of my life—personal and professional. I have a much deeper and more complex understanding of how society works. I can challenge much more racism in my daily life, and I have developed cherished and fulfilling cross-racial friendships I did not have before." When a majority of a minority says "Hey there is a problem here." You don't need to get defensive, you don't need to apologize, you don't need to tell anyone to go fuck themselves and you sure as hell shouldn't get dismissive. Your fourth option is to listen and take the issue at face value, then examine everyone's participation in the issue and start discussing what mind sets and actions would reduce the problem. Pretty simple. And let's talk about the defensiveness as a side topic. I thought this paragraph was extremely fascinating. Combined with When you really examine the actions of those who react poorly to racial conversations, doesn't both of the above just make a ton of sense? As someone who witnesses these reactions, in real life and on this board, it just clicks. What could have happened in history doesn't really apply right now. Europeans have won history. But now we're in 2015, we're smarter and evolved, they should stop rubbing it into people's faces right? That's what everyone jumped on Cam Newton about (NOTHING to do with him being black at all..) why not do that culture wide? You know, be the paragon of sportsmanlike conduct.
So what did you find? You just made a bunch of noise without saying anything. Here is the answer: It. Is. Junk. Science. Psychologists quantify findings all the time. What is wrong with this "Scientist"? Many of her "results" point to a psychological response, where is the data? EDIT: I picked her up today, my newest pet, isn't she beautiful? I call her White Privilege.
Believe me, X-ray, that's a huge obstacle these days. However, I was referring to earlier days, before I had a criminal record. I've got a couple of stories: - When I was in high-school, some friends and I needed money, and we chose to go about getting it the honest way. We saw that one of the local Wal-Marts was hiring, so I and and a buddy (who was also white) went by to fill out the applications. After sitting around a waiting room for about half an hour, we were told that the positions were already filled. Well, what can you do, right? The next day, one of our Mexican-American/Latino friends went to the same Wal-Mart, and not only got an application, BUT HE BROUGHT TWO EXTRAS FOR ME AND MY OTHER FRIEND. "I just told them that I had some friends who wanted to work here, too!" was his answer. Suddenly they have positions open... For the record, none of us got hired, but it was a telling event. - Right after I got out of high school, I REALLY needed a job. I was applying everywhere, and one of the places was Burger King. I got an interview, but I was denied the job because they needed somebody "bilingual" (meaning English/Spanish). I'll admit that I'm not fluent in Spanish; I can understand most of it, and communicate in very simple phrases. I could understand why they didn't hire me... Until a few weeks later. I went into that same Burger King, and the guy taking my order could not understand English at all. I had to place my order in my shitty Spanish. The manager of that store didn't really want someone who was "bilingual," because that guy obviously was not, unless he spoke Spanish and some language other than English. (And believe me, being "bilingual" in English with ANY OTHER LANGUAGE THAN SPANISH DOESN'T COUNT FOR SHIT IN SOUTH TEXAS.) These days, I realize that there are some places down here that will not hire a white man (many independently owned businesses), so I don't even waste my time with them. I'm not going to sit here and say "I know what ___________ group is going through!", because I don't know exactly what someone else has been through. And if I lived in a place like East Texas, where it was mostly white people in charge, I'd probably have an easier time. But I have felt discrimination.
Well, isn't this getting interesting. A few things, mainly for Parker. 1. Is there any scenario where you won't just automatically support the minorities no matter what they're complaining about or how irrational their stance is? Between Yale and Mizzou, does it matter to you at all that they've lied about the following (this is just 3 of several examples): - a white only frat party turning away minorities, a black pledge had to tell them they were full of shit - claiming a car was driven into them, never happened - claiming the KKK was on the loose on campus, never happened Are you going to say this ok because racism is a problem that actually exists? Are you really going to go there? Does it bother you at all that the idiot protester is screaming "It is not about creating an intellectual space! It is not!". One of the most prestigious universities in the world isn't about an intellectual space? How fucking stupid does this have to get for you to turn away? Have you watched these protesters interact with other people? Who's screaming, cursing, and who's being sane? This kind of reminds me of when posters pointed to evidence that the poor Muslim boy's clock was a fake and Audrey, with no evidence or rationale whatsoever wrote a condescending post assuming it must be real. No reasoning, just knee jerk emotional responses. This is what your entire attitude towards these situations seems to be based on. 2. You still don't get it. You start with the premise that there was a problem to begin with, and that's one of the many reasons your logic goes to shit. Saying people have a right to choose a costume and be a little provocative isn't a problem. When she said universities are increasingly becoming a place of censure these students have done everything to prove her right. 3. This is about free speech. If you can't see the connection between freedom of speech and stamping your feet when you don't like what people say until they are either fired or forced to resign you're just dumb. Demanding resignations over every perceived verbal slight is related to freedom of speech. I hope you understand that. 4. White fragility. The problem with the way you keep referring to this is it seems to claim white people can't handle any 'racial stress.' Except, very white posters have come down on the side of minorities several times in these discussions. Having a range of opinions based on the circumstances isn't white fragility, it's having a brain. It's using critical thinking skills instead of just jumping to the same repetitive heuristics. When you don't respond to what people are actually saying and try to spin it into this bullshit you defend, cry, argue, minimize, and ignore. You're rushing to the defense of blatant liars and people who care more about throwing tantrums than they do quality education. Don't try to tell yourself any different.
Ok, as I read, one thought keeps popping into my head: What does the end of racism look like? What is the path that gets us there? It's one thing (and an important thing) to critique the approaches taken by others, however, in the end, what is the solution? In short, what would this society look like in order for you to say that racism was a thing of the past?
The end of racism looks a lot like cultural norms melting into one big fucking pot and no one caring. The problem is that also looks like cultural appropriation. It also looks like some of the rough edges of all cultures involved being worn down. Each minority has their stereotypes and day by day they are eroding. There is some good and some bad with that erosion.
This will probably come off as incendiary but I'm unsure how to word it otherwise. With regards to any problem related to an -ism (racism specifically), I see this vicious cycle: - The ism exists and has a real world manifestation (which we all agree on, like for example police being out of control and disproportionately targeting minorities.) - There is discussion about the -ism. What to do and how to fix it. - The minorities claim that the majority can't possibly appreciate their point of view. - The majority says, "Okay, we have a problem - how do we fix it?" - The minority says, "There's no easy fix, but we must keep a dialogue open." - The majority tries to talk about the -ism. - The minority doesn't want their opinion because they can't possibly understand the minority's problem. I'll bring this into an issue we have in Canada, which is treatment of the native population. There is definitely a problem - as a generalized whole, they are far more disproportionately unhealthy, jailed, on welfare and their children make up over 90% of the kids in CPS. The rate of missing and murdered aboriginal women is an order of magnitude more than that of missing white women. So, the public in general tries to discuss it and everyone naturally has an opinion. Looking at one facet, say the missing/murdered indigenous women, the think tanks and the statisticians discover that the vast majority of those women are victims of native-on-native violence and that often the perpetrator is known or related to the woman. So, society says "How can we protect native women from getting beaten or murdered within their communities?" And the community says, "DON'T YOU DARE SUGGEST THAT THIS PROBLEM IS OUR FAULT!" And the majority says, "But there's a problem that's killing women. We need to find a way to fix it, and from what we can tell the majority are not the perpetrators of the crimes." And the native community says, "YOU DON'T GET TO TELL US HOW TO POLICE OUR OWN!" And so the majority says, "Well, how can we help?" And the response is, "We need more open dialogue." If the only solution anyone can think of is to create safe space and have open communication, but then they try to exclude everyone who is not a member of the persecuted minority, I don't see how anything ever changes.
This is Halloween we're talking about, not a funeral. If you came to my house dressed as a 63 year old white guy it would be hysterical. If you wanted to dress like my dead father, I guess the closest thing you could get to a costume would be maybe some Giants or Yankees gear, and some ill-fitting jeans and old man sneakers. I would be fine with that. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Seriously, I get being offended if someone dressed in red face, or something goofy like the Cleveland Indians Chief Wahoo, which clearly mocks native americans. But a feather headdress? As someone who has dressed up as a Catholic priest for Halloween (and hooked up - chicks are weird), the spiritual/religious significance argument against wearing it wouldn't hold water with me.
Kampf, 1) I've addressed the Yale and Mizzou students like 10-12 pages ago. Go back and read it. Summary: don't expect 18-21 year olds to handle the insanity of racism and the inaction to do anything about in 2015 perfectly. It's going to be messy. What I'm focusing on is what they're drawing attention to. No, I don't agree with every minority. First example comes to mind was that black actress who was banging her boyfriend in a car and she pulled the race card. I called bullshit on that immediately. Not everything is about race, but we have centuries of patterns that allow us to say "Hm, that's something." 2) What problem doesn't exist? Racism? Because there are plenty of fucking problems with racism. Black Face isn't a "little provocative" because that's what she was referencing. Blonde children dressing up as Asians and Black people. She wrapped it up in some Free Speech bullshit, but the article specifically called out racially charged items and she came back with "Well why not, but but but Free Speech!?!?" 3) Perceived verbal slights? We're talking about 300+ years of institutionalized, systemic racism that we're trying to move past and you really think that we're getting upset because she said our hat was ugly? Get the fuck out of here. 4) If you have a brain with critical thinking skills, then you should see what this shit actually is. Who the fuck gets to determine if racism is actually happening? Someone from the group being affected by it OR someone from the group on the receiving end of it? I'd argue the latter as the former have never experienced this shit. The fact you're denying this shit even exists is fucking bullshit and you're just one of those people, part of the problem that won't be changed. We'll just have to wait for you to die and hope your children are smarter and have the right views. Misanthropic, the reason why dressing up as a white dude and dressing up as a black guy is different is because of the history of the power dynamics. It's fucking simple. When you run up the score 50 points and you celebrate that last touchdown with 10 seconds to go, you're a fucking asshole. When you're up 50 points and the losing team celebrates? Who gives a shit, you're already winning. That's the difference. I'm done. You guys don't want to talk about this shit. You accuse me of coming down on your just preaching and all this other bullshit, but all you guys do is shit on everything. No fucking constructive criticism. Not trying to see things from their point of view. Not one fucking time in this entire discussion has anyone tried to suggest better ways for them to approach the situation. Just want to be the biggest fucking hypocrits, calling them entitled coddled crybabies, when you've done the is be the exact same thing in response. All you want them to do is shut up and go home so you don't have to hear your thought patterns and beliefs might not be on the right side of history. That's cool, you do that. You live that way and fucking enjoy it. And if this post gets edited, think about that shit in regards to freedom of speech. Guess it doesn't apply to internet forums but should apply when other people say stupid shit detrimental to the well being. Awesome.
Hey, I wasn't saying anything about whether or not it was real, I was just being condescending, thankyouverymuch. There have now been four pages of people complaining about how annoying it is for white people to deal with all this. Since my Joke Husky about how perfectly that all played to my last post got deleted, I guess I'll post the one image that's allowed to be posted instead of articulating a response: This is all of you just being offended and complaining and whining. From someone standing more or less in the middle between the protesters getting riled up about every little goddamn thing and the people who have been posting in this thread, y'all sound exactly alike to me. Only one side's considering themselves to be "activists" and one side's considering themselves to be having "intelligent discourse."
And guess what, you're still entitle to dress up as his dead father, as that is your right. But that doesn't mean you're immune from the consequences, which would probably be a punch to the face. Unless you say something to incite a riot, something that is deemed to be hate speech, or something similar, then you have the right to say whatever the fuck you want. Freedom Of Speech is the right to speak your opinions publicly, without fear of censorship or punishment, and yet that is exactly what the "offended" parties are trying to do. People can say just about anything they fucking want, and if you get butt hurt over it, who fucking cares. Is what they are saying moral, or correct, or polite? Maybe not, but that doesn't matter... they have the right to say it. If you don't like it, you have the right to tell them so, and feel pissed, but you don't have the right to censor what they are saying just because you feel pissed that they said it. How can so many people miss this simple concept?
You really don't get freedom of speech at all... this is not your forum, so you can't just post whatever the fuck you want under "Freedom Of Speech". You are, however, more than welcome to go and start up your own forum and post whatever the fuck you want. THAT is free speech. This is the typical Reddit Circle Jerk... it's not your space, so you can't do whatever you want. That being said, no mod on here, myself included, has ever changed the content of any posts, we've only deleted content that didn't add shit or was too far off topic and left a message saying so. If you're claiming otherwise, then you can go fuck yourself. As to "talking", you're doing lots of it, but no listening. You ignore and discount opinions that are different than your own, and are unwilling to even accept that other people may have a valid, yet differing, point of view. I tried to explain to you how I feel about some of this stuff, and got shot down as having an invalid opinion, because "you're white and can't possibly know what's going on". So yeah, if you REALLY want to have a discussion, and not just try and TELL us how we're all wrong, by all means, stick around. Otherwise, don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.
What Nett said. There was some profound irony in reading the, "You guys aren't LISTENING!" while at the same time complaining there needs to be more discussion. It can't be both ways, which is my problem with the current generation of protesters. There are serious, deadly problems that need to be fixed, but no one can stand the possibility of being offended. Good luck, I guess.
I dunno, probably the same way they miss the simple concept that a college campus is under no compulsion to tolerate all sorts of speech, that "freedom of speech" as a right only applies to the government creating laws that abridge it, and the the natural demographics of this board mean that minority opinions are by default shouted down. It's actually kind of cute that people pretend that they want actual insight from a minority perspective. How many times have we discussed sexism or racism on this board? How many times has the viewpoint of any minority that discusses a lived experienced countered with "WELL WHAT DO YOU WANT ME TO DO ABOUT IT?" How many times has somebody tried to explain why something is fucked up, only to be accused of being "butthurt" and "not getting comedy?" At a certain point, it makes absolutely no sense to keep actually providing insight when it's clear that people are calcified in their beliefs. This thread is essentially an opportunity for white dudes to pat themselves on the back for having civil discussions about tough issues without actually listening to the people those issues affect most strongly, which is fine and all (it's your board! do you Papi). Just don't be surprised when that conversation is less than productive. I mean. Until that Twitter account starts bringing in that precious new blood.
I find that a little bit interesting that you bring that up, since the item that set this off was the implication that, in requesting that those in charge of Yale remove or punish Erika Christakis, they were supposed violating her freedom of speech. That to ask her to face consequences at her place of employment violated the ethos of free speech. One might, in fact, say that Yale University is not Erika Christakis's forum, and that if she wants a university that is, she is perfectly free to go found one. And that maybe it is within the rights of the stakeholders at the university to say to someone, "You know, perhaps your opinions are too dumb for us to enjoy associating with you." Perhaps there is a parallel to be made here, I'm not sure. Maybe I'm just shitposting and not adding shit while circlejerking myself off. Always hard to tell these days.