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Coronavirus: Miles away from ordinary.

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Juice, Jan 28, 2020.

  1. Revengeofthenerds

    Revengeofthenerds
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    my 3 and 7 year old are the same. And if there’s a place where I gotta wear one and they don’t, they’ll ask for one to put on to be like me.

    People always compliment me saying how good they are and my response is the same: it’s not the kids who are the problem — they don’t give a shit if they’re wearing a mask or not. It’s the adults that make it difficult.
     
  2. toytoy88

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    That goes for just about anything. Kids will mimic adults and far to many of them have horrible people setting examples for them.
     
  3. Crown Royal

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    Little League sports is the perfect microcosm of this. The kids are there having fun, the parents are screaming at them to do better, abusing coaches and officials while picking fights on the stands.

    My kid got into archery and golf as her sports. Thank GOD.
     
  4. GTE

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    Step daughter woke up this morning and can't smell anything. Took a CVS home test and there's a faint line (which means positive) She's been vaxxed since May.
     
  5. Jimmy James

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    I think the only way people get vaccinated now is if their jobs start to require it. Government, federal or otherwise, feels like it's far away from most people's day-to-day lives, figuratively and/or literally. Jokes about shitty bosses or coworkers are relatable to everybody regardless of political belief. When the choice is between social media clout or watching their kids go hungry, I doubt most people will be as principled about getting shots.

    To make this a reality, the government would need to incentivize businesses to mandate vaccines. It needs to be easy and put money back in business owner's pocket. If they can prove that a certain percentage of their employees are vaccinated, and/or if they provide resources for their employees to get vaccinated such as a vaccine clinic, give them business owner's more money. If there's one thing that rich assholes love, it's more money.

    Yes, this will cost a shit ton of taxpayer money, but at this point, people are too fucking stupid to think beyond their genitals, stomachs, or their social media likes. The private sector has more power over our lives day-to-day than the government. The government should leverage that for the public good.
     
  6. Dcc001

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    This is another great point. Thanks for mentioning it, Jimmy. Whatever the measures are that government mandates...how are they enforced? Do they try to use the police to force people? If, as JJ suggests, they either force or incentivize employers, how do the companies know and what should they be expected to reasonably do?

    I think of some random scenario: a small business with a staff of, say, 30 people. Five are office and 25 are field or production. The government mandates that all your employees MUST be vaccinated or it's illegal to employ them. But your staff is trained and well-established and it really disrupts your business to lose someone. So now the employer is in a position to demand medical info from the employee (and that will be fun if there's a collective bargaining agreement in place), and the employee might get terminated not because of anything job-related (which is another giant target for a wrongful dismissal lawsuit). Should the employer be expected to cut loose good people who, for whatever reason, don't want the vaccine? The employer will already be looking to mitigate their risk of liability should someone catch it on the job, but we have some pretty hardcore worker rights baked into our legislation and our CBEs.

    Imagine that ^ scenario where you cut loose two union guys because they don't want a vaccine, and their union hall gets the lawyer involved, and they set up a picket line to all your jobsites because you can't dismiss someone in this context for this reason. I know this may sound pie in the sky, but I can soooo easily see it happening, especially in a union town like I live in. To say nothing of the fact that Random Small Company is not in the business of tracking vaccine records and remitting them to the government; what does THAT process look like? WSIB claims are already, like, months behind. What new government office is running this?

    An alternative: do you use the police? The premier of Ontario already said at the beginning of the third lockdown that he was issuing a "stop and frisk," order (essentially). Police were given free reign to pull over anyone driving and ask why they had left their home and ticket if it wasn't one of the allowed reasons. To their great credit, every single precinct in Ontario separately issued a statement the next day refusing the order, and the premier called it back with an apology. If that was only to enforce staying home...how do you get the police to force people to the clinic for a jab?

    I don't bring up these questions because I'm opposed to the mandate; I bring them up because...what ARE the answers? How do you intend to enforce this?
     
    #5966 Dcc001, Aug 12, 2021
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2021
  7. Aetius

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    Once you convince a kid to wear underwear, their will is broken. Nothing will ever encumber their freedom as much as that, so why complain now?
     
  8. Nettdata

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    I know my company, a 5k person public company, just said “must vaccinate to go to the office… and everyone is expected to go to the office.”

    When asked what the repercussions for not getting vaccinated were, they stopped just short of saying “you’re fired”, but it’s not off the table yet and is heading in that direction.
     
  9. wexton

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    Oh yea, I would hate to see what the ILWU would do if our employer mandated vaccines.
     
  10. Dcc001

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    Not just mandated vaccines - firing people for not having them. Whoo, boy. That would be a mess. The economy and infrastructure of the town I live in is based almost entirely on petrochemical production and refinement, and every single plant is in some way signatory to all the unions - carpenters, labourers, steelworkers, electricians...all of them.

    What has happened multiple times in this area are sympathetic picket lines. Company A is feuding with Union X, but Union X is closely linked to Unions Y and Z. So Unions X-Z picket all the jobsites that Company A is working at and don't allow anyone to enter. Let me tell you...when you shut down Nova or Imperial Oil like that? Shit gets sorted out IMMEDIATELY.
     
  11. Aetius

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    "Look, you're not going to be fired for not getting vaccinated. You will simply be receiving an auto-accepted invitation to not receive a paycheck any longer."
     
  12. Nettdata

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    The logic would go like this: "you are expected as part of your job to attend an office on occasion, even if you are permanently WFH. In order to attend an office, you must be vaccinated. If you are not vaccinated, you cannot attend an office. Ergo, you are no longer fit to do your job."

    Even though that's the logical conclusion, they haven't come right out and said "you'll be fired", probably while the legal and HR teams figure shit out.
     
  13. Aetius

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    "We have suspended all direct deposit, all paychecks will be in the form of physical checks that must be picked up at the office, and must be picked up by the employee in question. Also you cannot enter the office without being vaccinated."
     
  14. Nettdata

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    Meanwhile, there is overwhelming (90+ percent?) support for such a policy in the company.

    Especially since the Delta variant has pretty well killed the concept of herd immunity. Pretty well EVERYONE is going to be exposed to Delta, and the only real way to protect yourself is with the vaccine.
     
  15. Rush-O-Matic

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  16. Nettdata

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    It’s interesting to see the musicians handle this. Clapton comes out against vaccinations, Brian May calls him (and others) fruitcakes..
     
  17. Dcc001

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    This works if you have a staff that mostly buys into the policy, or if you're in an industry where the candidates far exceed the jobs available and you can afford to jettison whoever doesn't comply. Or if the workforce doesn't have collective representation.

    In Canada, given that something like 82% of people have already received the first dose and if they haven't already had they're second shot, they have it booked, the vast majority of people won't need any kind of cajoling. But the small percentage that do...well, I'll be interested to see how this gets fought.
     
  18. Nettdata

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    It's called Alberta, and we get to sit back and watch.

    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/can...-in-alberta-with-501-new-infections-recorded/
     
  19. Dcc001

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  20. Trickysista

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    FWIW, my firm implemented a policy on Tuesday stating that we have to be vaccinated to work in the office unless we receive a medical or religious exemption. Part of their reasoning was that there is an unacceptable number of employees who aren't vaccinated. If you don't want to get vaccinated, and don't have an exemption, you have to have a negative test every two days for the foreseeable future. I am currently working from home because I'm not vaccinated yet. I had covid at the end of April, and my doc told me to wait three months to get vaccinated because of the antibodies and the side effects would be worse. So I scheduled my shot for this Friday afternoon. Now I'm being told I could receive an exemption from my doc because I had covid and should come back into the office. I feel like my firm keeps changing the rules and everyone is just making shit up as they go. It's wildly frustrating.

    A part-time employee (who's actually working full time because there's just SO much work to do but not getting paid because we're cheap) was sent home last week for not wearing her mask correctly. She was told to take the weekend to think about if she's willing to wear it correctly. When the policy was implemented on Tuesday, she officially retired.

    @Dcc001 I'll let you know how a company with a union plans to handle this. My husband works for a major truck manufacturer and they just reinstated their mask policy on Tuesday. If you don't want to wear one or are wearing one consistently incorrectly, they will send you home without pay. There have been whispers of a vaccine mandate, but nothing's been mentioned yet.