Someone needs to explain to me how this information is going to be used against me. I'm genuinely struggling to think of a less useful piece of information than someone's vaccination status if I was trying to act against their interest. It's so banal, so general, so assumed, that it tells me almost nothing about them. Ironically, the only useful purpose for it I can think of is that knowing someone is unvaccinated means I know they're a conspiratorial moron. You're literally giving the government more information to use against you by not complying than you would if you complied.
It's not the vaccination status that's the target; it's your daily movement and a complete record of your entire life (what you do, where you go, what you buy, who you associate with, etc) that's the big fish. No one is talking about tracking your vaccine status as being the dangerous thing here.
But the government isn't tracking those things through anything related to vaccines. Private companies are tracking that information, and selling it to literally anyone who has a pocket of loose change to pay for it (including the government).
I think 95% of the people who are vocally anti-vax will get vaccinated. (Excluding those with legit medical reasons, of course). There are already cases of that where when their job is on the line, they will get vaccinated. Today the local hospitals put out their "must be vaccinated" policies and loaded up job postings. If they're not vaccinated by Oct 22nd, they will be terminated on the 23rd. That will be telling. I think people are not getting vaccinated because there are no real repercussions, other than they get to push around some minimum wage kids in a food court or restaurant. Losing your job is a serious repercussion, and I think it will motivate many to change their mind. There will be those that won't, and all we can do is hope that they become more and more of a statistical anomaly.
The medical systems are crumbling under the added pressures by morons that won't get vaccinated. That is my biggest concern, and if anything I think the governments were too slow in acting on it.
What everyone here is trying to explain to you is that this information is ALREADY in their hands. It is also in the hands of private companies who will sell it to anyone with cash. Unless you are either so old, already so paranoid about personal info leaks or just plain so much of a luddite that you don't own a cell phone (smart or otherwise) and have never registered on social media (mind you it has already been shown that facebook builds shadow profiles of people who have never registered with them by piecing together publicly available information along with info leaked from your friends and associates about you. Your worst case apocalyptic scenario is something you should have been yelling about 15 or so years ago when it was actually happening. We are so far past that point now https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy...e-feds-location-data-from-every-car-on-earth/ https://www.theverge.com/2021/1/22/...e-memo-admits-buying-smartphone-location-data https://www.vox.com/recode/22587248...priest-jeffrey-burrill-pillar-data-harvesting Just a couple examples from a quick search. So far everything you have listed as being afraid of coming true already came true over the last 2 decades and will in no way be aided by a government app to verify vaccination status.
I say "fuck all of them" and pile them up in a tent out front of the hospital. For real! I cannot care less if they get some magical epiphany when they're in the throes of COVID pneumonia... too late, so sad, get out of the way. Funny how they ignore science, but them come begging for help from scientists when shit hits the fan. Just let the stupid people die and let the rest of us carry on.
To add to this vaccination rates have jumped everywhere they have implemented these rules, even alberta https://globalnews.ca/news/8211247/alberta-covid-19-vaccine-uptake-comparison/ I have no illusion the government actually believes they will hit 100% but these methods have greatly improved uptake and will probably get us another 5-10% of the population vaccinated. It is pretty clear that to motivate people to get the shot the carrot is not working nearly as well as the stick.
Interesting. You’re more optimistic than I am about the mandates forcing people to comply. The people I know who have refused the vaccine are pretty hardcore in their refusal. Like, willing to move or to lie or to change businesses to avoid it. We’re going to hit some vaccine cap fairly soon here. What happens if we hit it, but the medical system is still overwhelmed? Anyone have any theories? Because to see Alberta crash so bad by reopening when they were at 70ish percent tells me that we have to be at like 95% or something to have a hope of keeping the ICUs open.
do we know how they’re going to prove that the people are actually vaccinated and not just making it up with like a fake vaccine card?
I’m not naive enough to think that they can’t access what they want via purchase through a private company app. What I’m trying to say in this conversation is that we’re entering a stage where the government itself can track you and overtly stop you from functioning in society as you see fit; and the majority of people are comfortable with it. If you don’t see the difference between voluntarily logging onto an app and knowing it’s tracking you, vs the government dictating that you download an app and sending the RCMP to your home to ensure compliance, then we’re speaking different languages.
Have they ever explained what their issue is to be that hardcore about it? And what other types of political views do these people also espouse?
We've already seen small scale test runs of how this is going to go. Houston Methodist Hospital implemented a requirement and got 99.2% compliance. New York State is reporting a 92% compliance rate among healthcare workers state-wide, up from 73% when the mandate was announced. People are caving, and the reason they're caving is pretty simple: getting vaccinated is easy. There's no actual benefit to staying unvaccinated, so the only incentive to fight the mandate is pride. The way California's system works is that you get a QR code that encodes a message (containing your name, DOB, and vaccination record), that has been cryptographically signed by the state. You can verify the record by checking the signature against the public key corresponding to the state's private key. The system is built on The Commons Project's non-profit work. But how? What abilities does this enable that the government didn't have before? And through what mechanism?
The only reason this is at all in question is because COVID is not 100% fatal. If it were 100% fatal, then it would be a no brainer. If you were able to catch something, and spread it for 2 weeks, and then die, and then those that you spread it to would also die after 2 weeks, then it would 100% be enforced by people in uniforms with guns. I have no doubt. The problem is that morons think that they can beat the COVID, so it doesn't matter to them. Look at the morons in /r/hermanCainAward... just about all of them are like that. "Fucking sheep... .pussies... weak ass pussies... oh shit... I can't breathe... hopes and prayers! I regret to inform you..." It's their ego/pride/stupidity thinking that it doesn't have to apply to them, and THAT is not good enough reason for them to get away with it. Hate to break it to you, but we don't live in a 100% free world where anyone can do whatever the fuck they want. That's the way societies work.
r/COVIDAteMyFace is another good one, with a more general focus to include people losing their jobs over their freedumbs
The film Contagion aged so well. The only difference between the film and COVID is that the disease in the film has ~20% fatality rate. Everything else matched up almost perfectly, from the source being a bat in China, to alt-media grifters hocking a magic pill for financial gain, with desperate people clearing out supplies of that pill despite the lack of evidence of efficacy.
The only thing that didn't occur was people getting kidnapped to procure the vaccine. That movie was eerily spot on about the nature of human beings.
That's where the tea leaves went wrong, that a vaccine would be produced and instead of kidnapping scientists just to get a dose, so many people who instead go "no thanks, it was rushed".
It varies by the person. One is adamant that the disease isn't nearly as bad as the media espouses, and believes that the side effects of the vaccine are greater than is being reported. Another doesn't like the government having any kind of authority like this. Both are under 40 and in excellent health with pregnant wives, so they're tending to view things through that lens as well. In the case of my friends listed above - and of course this is only anecdotal on my part - one is self-employed and the other is high enough up at a massive company that I don't see it having repercussions on them. It's going to be interesting to see if the employer mandates have that kind of effect across the board. Given the crippling shortage of nurses and PSWs, do you think the hospitals will actually cut the ones that refuse it? This sounds similar to the federal app here and what's coming through the provincial ones. Some restaurants are already using it. To unilaterally check your movement whenever it wants and potentially control, down to the minutiae, how you run your life, with no warrant or probable cause or really any reason at all? Neither do I. However, Covid is 95.5% survivable with no long-term effects for almost all of those people (I'm pretty sure I recall a stat that listed 60-80% of people who contract it could be asymptomatic), and it's actually way higher than that for all the demographics under 50 years of age. Treating this disease as if it WAS that dangerous is part of why there's push-back. It's acutely dangerous and deadly to a small amount of people, and a big nothing burger to everyone else. And the unknown stochastic element to this complicates it, because a very small amount of healthy people seem to be genetically predisposed to getting deathly ill if they catch it. It's enough of a cushion for people to look at numbers from a media they don't trust and a government they don't like and say "I'll take my chances." I don't think anyone thinks that this is a 100% free world; the heart of the matter right now is how much freedom do people have to choose what goes into their own body, when there's a public health element to their choice. People's ego, or pride, or morals will of course have them pick certain paths. They'll also be the ones that pay the price, as the unvaccinated people are the ones in the ICUs and on the ventilators right now.
Again this is something the government can and already does. This QR you are terrified of will not aid in this endeavour. And once again you are glossing over the real danger of an uncheck covid spread is that it would endanger EVERYONE WHO NEEDS HEALTHCARE. Full Stop. Covid has show again and again if you disregard any form of public health restrictions you overwhelm our healthcare system to the point where it is unable to render even basic assistance to all who need it. Albertan hospitals are bursting at the seams because they decided to forgo all form of public health measures. Without aid from the Feds and neighboring provinces alberta would have been forced into implementing triage protocols. Can read the actual protocols they developed here (https://www.albertahealthservices.ca/scns/Page13849.aspx) If the whole country had followed alberta's lead there would be no other provinces to airlift the critical covid patients to. Again glossing over all of the vaccinated people who just want to access normal healthcare who cannot because of the unvaccinated peoples "freedoms" If the unvaccinated were the only ones paying a price for their decision no one would give two fucks if they had their vaccine (unless perhaps a friend or family member who didn't want to see them get covid) However since we are all paying a steep price for their decisions they can get in line or fuck off