Correct. However, I see it as being one of two choices: You allow him to continue to have like-minded guests on in an echo chamber, or you push back and attempt to "win" against him in a discussion. If the mentality is, "He's too stupid and not worthy," well, I guess that's okay. Keep trying to get the message out via the health organizations and the networks...they average a fraction of his viewership and are an overall much older demographic. For whatever reason, a big chunk of people have chosen Rogan as their guy. If you don't want to engage on that platform, then you never reach those people. Surely to god there's a guy out there who's as informed on vaccines and capable of being as ruthless in a debate as Shapiro. A big problem with misinformation is when it's allowed to appear valid and uncontested.
I think you missed the point about the Afghanistan analogy. It wasn't about how you feel about how policies were handled or whether you agree or disagree with how things were handled, but more the fact that even in your response you said, "we should have just left troops there indefinitely" without any regard to what that costs, how we do that, how we interact with the Taliban who now rule the country, etc. It's again, just coming to with a "solution" and saying do this, without much thought into how you do it. There are treatments hospitals are using for mild cases. I won't go into a bunch of them as it's not relevant to what I was trying to get across. I don't have it right now, but hasn't the US had like 50 million cases of covid so far? You think the hospitals are flooded now...people go to the emergency room for sprained ankle. Let's have everyone with symptoms of a cold go to the emergency room to get a covid test and then take up a bed to get treatment. "Well we should make covid centers in every major city so people can just go there and not clog up the hospitals." See where I'm going with this whole logistics thing and people just saying things without any clue about what it takes to accomplish something. As far as asking people to come on, I'm guessing a lot of people have turned him down because they don't want to answer for the governments decisions which is what the conversation would devolve into. Also, just presenting pure fact based information doesn't make for great podcasts. There's also probably no one who is actually doing work on vaccines who has a quick second to shoot the shit with Rogan. You'd get the same type of analyst you get on CNN, former director of blah blah blah who hasn't the slightest clue of what's going on or you know, Sanjay fucking Gupta.
It's almost like preventing problems is way more effective than dealing with them after the fact.... Amazingly, only one political party opposes the cheaper, more practical and more effective way to address things, and they also suddenly don't want you to believe things your doctor is telling you.... JRE is a gateway drug to Alex Jones.
But they have tried. I bring back the Sanjay Gupta example. I feel he went on his show in good faith and Rogan used it as an opportunity to expose his own fragile ego, bash cnn, and make him answer for them. I’m not saying Rogan’s not worthy of discussion, but he has repeatedly shown that he’s not interested in learning. His viewers enjoy the simplistic way he breaks things down even if it’s wrong. People always like simple and easy over complicated and nuanced. Ben Shapiro is a bad faith clown in charge of the daily wire. And I think it’s missing the point that there needs to be a ruthless debate. The only debate that should ever exist is between subject matter experts on the subject of vaccinations and Covid. And it shouldn’t even be a public debate because the public largely can’t even handle the depth of that sort of information. Look at how misunderstood the efficacy rates of the vaccines were as soon as they told people percentages. Not everything needs to be handled like combat sports. I think that is one of the biggest issues in our society today. “See clip of xyz DEVASTATED in a debate about income inequality”. “BLM clown gets owned in debate about crime stats.” Shit like that has no place in the public health space.
I think the other issue is that both the Trump and Biden administration have used Fauci as a political sponge to absorb any negative news/reports regarding COVID, which seems completely unfair. That put him in the position of being the de facto policy maker, when that's not really his position or the place of the CDC to do so. The CDC attempting to extend the eviction moratorium is a good example. That strategy is eroding public trust and really a shitty way to handle it.
My point was exactly what you are saying; that (in the case of Afghanistan), I think that Biden pulled out because he had previously said "this is the date we pull out," and there was not much thought or planning at all. Check out - it's a podcast, everyone calm down - Jocko Unraveling with Darryl Cooper where Cooper reads the texts from soldiers on the ground as it was happening. If you think that they did an in-depth cost analysis that factored in socioeconomic and geopolitical concerns, then I disagree. This is all an aside to Covid; I just hope it's not the same mentality for planning. Apologies for the miscommunication; I'm not suggesting that everyone who thinks they're sick check into the hospital. I was suggesting an out-patient treatment given in the early stages by your GP where you could treat at home and stop it before it got bad. That's what I hope we have in place right now. But the people that are left currently unvaccinated are the ones who buy into all the shit you just listed. Everyone who listens to public health officials and standard news broadcasts and has faith that they're accurate has already been vaccinated. You need to convince the rest. I suppose it's fair to ask: what's the overall goal? If it's to fully eradicate Covid, I don't think that's possible. If it's to keep people alive and keep the health system on the rails, then you need as many people vaccinated as possible and you need to keep those who DO get sick from transmitting it. That means convincing the hesitant to get a shot. I don't know if there's any movement at all to convince an anti-vaxxer to get one. If the plan is to continue the same outreach measures via press conferences and nightly newscasts, I think you'll get the same outcome you've already been getting.
No we don’t. They’ve made their choice. These people have their fingers in their ears. It’s not my job to frustrate myself and try to convince people who don’t want to be convinced. You know how I know? Because the people in my life who choose to not get vaccinated know my argument and choose to listen to some Karen on Facebook instead. And also get super belligerent and angry about it. It’s not like there’s a whole segment of the population just waiting to hear something they haven’t heard yet.
Let those who choose to die, die. Get a booster as needed until Covid mutates to a less lethal thing. Wear a mask as needed. And move the fuck on with life. I’m all out of sympathy for people who willingly put people in danger for completely selfish reasons. The people who can’t get vaccinated for whatever reason deserve protection from the dipshits among us. Until people realize that a lot of the Covid prevention measures are designed to control the spread to others and keep others from dying, we get no where. It’s about caring for your fellow human, and some people fundamentally lack it.
Our county health department has announced they can't keep up with the contact tracing. My in laws are quarantined after their granddaughter tested positive. Adios to Christmas Eve with that side of the family.
Shitty. We are paranoid about someone getting sick up until Christmas. We pulled our kids out of daycare yesterday and they’ll stay home until Christmas. We aren’t risking anything at this point.
So you just disagree with them and let them walk around, all alive and shit? You’re part of the problem. Execute the dissenters.
I think we can all agree the planning portion of the pandemic has been inadequate, but that's what happens when you flub things from the start and are trying to patchwork everything after that. It doesn't help that there's still no clear direction from one consistent source. You've got everyone and their mother giving their take on things who should just shut up and direct everyone to one official statement place. The fact still remains though, the logistics of doing multiple options to combat covid are way beyond what a country like the US or Canada are capable of doing. No worries about the confusion, but it does point to the fact that even if you set something like that up, people will inevitably not follow the simplest of directions and only hear go to the hospital if you are sick so we can treat you. You are also sending people with covid out into public or taking public transportation to get to doctors to get tested and then treated. It would be messy. To further the Rogan guest problem, you'd have to be an expert in viruses, vaccines, economic policy, state law policy etc to be able to cover all the talking points. It would inevitably come to, "so do you think mask mandates are effective? Do you think we should have shutdowns." It's just a bad spot for anyone to go into. I'm not surprised people aren't flocking there. As to where we go from here, I honestly don't know. Vaccines seem to not be the answer anymore as I think we've reached the point where if you haven't been vaxxed yet, it's not happening. Maybe do what Australia did and shut down the whole country until we reach 95% rates and then treat the other people as they get covid? Maybe hope the virus ends up cannibalising itself and omicron turns into a highly infectious but minor version and move on with life. Maybe we figure out a magic pill that helps if you do catch it so people stop dying. I really don't have an answer because I think, like the government did in Afghanistan, the plan they came up with, in this case vaccines, should have been a slam dunk and it turned out to be completely the opposite and there wasn't a plan B to fall back on.
Same. My sister, BIL, and his mother are the only ones we're seeing. We're all in self-imposed quarantine and have fast test kits. It's worth it to be able to spend Xmas with my sister and not worry about her.
I hear you. My mom caught RSV from my son a few weeks ago and got pneumonia. She’s fully vaxxed and boosted, but I’m still not taking any chances.
I also wonder how many of the truly knowledgeable types are the kind of people who have the time, desire, or skill to do such a press junket? It's not like I see a bunch of scientists who work on this shit daily popping up in any kind of interviews anywhere.. .it's usually someone with a soap box, or a book to sell, etc, that does those tours.
I heard a really good explanation of the vaccine the other day... "it's like a fire suit that a race car driver wears... it will last a certain amount of time against a certain amount of fire/heat. If you get exposed to a small flame then no big deal, you walk away and come out unscathed. If you get into a medium fire, then you will get some minor burns and singed hair, etc, but you'll live. If you crash into a wall and are now strapped to your seat in the middle of a huge fire, well, you're fucked, regardless of how good your fire suit is." The fire would be the virus and the size of it would be the viral load in this analogy, and the vaccine would be the thickness/effectiveness of the fire suit. My mom actually understood it better as a result.
Wow... this video just hit YT. There's a farmer who runs a channel called the Millennial Farmer. I was turned onto it by someone around here, and I'm glad they did, as it's one of my most enjoyable channels that I always enjoy. Well, he's been MIA for a couple of weeks, but came back today. "Yep, I took 17 days off, and I got Covid." It is shocking to see his state right now compared to what he was 2-3 weeks ago.
Thats a good analogy. For once, I’m thankful my parents are a couple of hypochondriacs. They couldn’t have gotten the vaccine quicker. The alternative is my wife’s uncle, who is a flat-earther. Want to venture a guess as to his position on the vaccine?