Las Vegas had 16K new cases over the weekend and the positivity rate is now at 26.3%. Still no talk of a shut down. CES and SHOT show are going to be here in a few days, that's not going to be pretty. Especially when everyone drags this shit back home along with whatever new variant they bring in here.
No, I meant that the Q-folks and people who believe vaccines give your autism 5g or whatever will soon have their own diagnosis in the DSM 5. FFS, persecution fetish, no one is holding you down to put a needle in your arm anytime soon. That shit is a bizarre fantasy, not how any of this shit works for adults.
In both Canada and the EU, they’ve announced mandatory vaccines this week. Likely it will come into effect this year. The CBC article referenced Austria and a similar penalty structure…something like $20,000 per year fines for not being vaccinated. It’s of course not official yet, but it’s a 180 from what they’ve been saying the last few years. So the unvaccinated would be forced to get jabbed or pay X dollars every month that they don’t. We’ll see how that stands up legally. Source: https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/first-reading-ottawas-180-degree-turn-on-mandatory-vaccination The Minister of Health was the official who suggested this was the direction forward.
One of the philosophers that I enjoy noted that the vaccination programs in the US and Canada have been one of the worst examples of totalitarianism out there. On one hand you have the "freedom of choice", but if you exercise that choice, it's total expulsion from functioning in the society, so it's not really a choice at all. He suggests it would have been better to just do it as mandatory from the get go, no illusion of choice. People would have respected the decisiveness and swiftness of action more than the endless debating and shame-porn that people really got in to.
That's kind of a bit much considering we've had mandatory vaccinations for decades now, and "total expulsion from functioning in society" is how they describe "maybe being required to have them to work, or find an exemption." Like....Jesus, wait til this dude finds out you have to wear shoes and a shirt most places, or how most folks look down on those who wipe their ass with their left hand...
Or, actually make it optional and not ostracism the unvaccinated. Especially since the vaccine itself doesn't seem to have a bearing on whether or not you catch/spread the disease, rather keeping you from dying of it. That part has grated on me. The people who say, with a straight face, that we DO have a choice; there's just consequences. True choice with consequences is picking Apple over Samsung - you sacrifice some features for others. Not being able to work, travel, attend public spaces, attend school and ultimately be fined thousands of dollars per month is not "choice with consequences," it's forcing you to do it without an actual gun. This will make some people blind with rage, but I agree with Peterson's sentiments here: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/jo...-before-canadians-wreck-something-we-cant-fix The mixed messaging combined with the idea that we can constantly keep shoveling government money out while at the same time turning whole industries on and off like a tap is a fragile situation. It sucks that we haven't taken these last two years to get healthier or bolster our health care system; we'll be paying for that choice for generations.
I'll stand corrected, but I don't believe we've ever had a federal mandate on a vaccine, not even with polio. The schools demanded it for children to attend, but the state never imposed an order and then fines for people who didn't comply. Again, that might be off but I recall reading that a "forced" vaccine in this method would be a first for Canada. Edit: I should add...let's be real. Apart from changing elementary schools as a kid and flying to Australia, I've NEVER had to show proof of vaccine. Whatever we had before on paper is not what's being suggested now.
I hate to tell you but people who are vaccinated carry a much lower viral load then the unvaccinated. And viral load is what makes a person more or less contagious. But if you ignore reality I guess you have a point.
Well, isn't that the point of what I said. You don't actually have a choice or freedom in this situation. The whole song and dance of "it's YOUR choice" is there primarily for people to feel morally superior about them making the "right" choice voluntarily. It would have been much better to move without the performance, just make it happen, and prevent a lot of overflowing hospitals, dead people, and endless videos of "Karens" losing their shit. Under totalitarian governments you have the same choices, do this or jail. He also notes that it's correct for people to be skeptical of the government and its intentions. After all, we see then cheat and abuse us all of the time. This looks a lot like that, but we should accept it in this case anyways. The metaphor he uses is if you were in a restaurant and you see a couple, the man is behind his partner hitting her on the back. You know, or at least have credible belief, that he is a domestic abuser. It _looks_ like he's abusing her, but she's choking and trying to save her life. Stopping him could result in her choking to death. The People, in this case, are her. He is the government.
I had to have one to register for public schools, to get a visa to go abroad and to work for the state and federal government. So...different paths, man?
This. My sister was directly exposed the day after Christmas and then went back to my parents house and exposed them and my brother and his wife. None of them tested positive. All vaccinated. No word yet on the viral load on my unvaxxed uncle who tested positive and then went the Ivermectin route. I can probably venture a fairly accurate guess, though.
This is factually inaccurate. E.g. Harvard's study, news article of an Oxford study, or a Chinese study. Vaccinated individuals are less contagious overall, and are contagious for a far shorter period. Fact check your gut feelings. If your opinion is that harsh consequences make this not a choice, what part of "your kid can't get an education" doesn't fit with what that? Vaccine mandates have existed forever. I just did a quick search (since I'm not intimately acquainted with Canadian law) and saw that Ontario has financial penalties and exclusion from school for students who are unvaccinated.
This booster did me dirty. If we have to keep getting these every few months, I’m finding some anti-vaxxers and kicking their ass
It's exactly that. You seem to be under the expectation that those consequences have to be equal or something. It's not like they're saying "don't get vaccinated, then catch the virus, then stay the fuck at home"... they still get medical care, fucking it up for the rest of us. Don't like it? Move to some other country and live by their rules.
Well we're shattering records for positive tests and hospitalizations left, right and centre. Somewhere between 70-80% of those hospitalized are vaccinated. So I guess my overarching point was that things look no different now than they did in April of 2020 or January of 2021, excepting that if you ARE vaccinated you aren't in the ICU. If you read my whole answer, I said that schools have always had it. We have NEVER had a federal financial penalty for not receiving a vaccine, and if you think having to produce a vaccination record when you enter junior high equates with having to produce one to get on a bus or enter McDonald's, you and I see things fundamentally differently.
Why the fuck not? All unvaccinated people - regardless of current health issues - should be forcibly vaccinated, or executed.
Question: Canada is averaging 40,000-ish new cases per day. Probably a huge underestimate thanks to the halt in testing and overwhelming number of false positives. Given how this disease has so far progressed, do you think continued partial lockdowns (vacillating between open and partially closed, based on industry) plus draconian measures that force the 5-8% (ish) holdouts who are adamantly opposed to receiving the shot will substantially reduce the number of infected? Genuine question, not trying to be flippant.
You seem incapable of a good faith argument here. The people refusing to get vaccinated are fucking this up. We as a society put faith in professionals to determine if their reasons for refusal are valid, and for the most part ,they aren't. These are people wildly influenced by misinformation, and it's gone on for so long, they will refuse to believe the truth. We have had vaccines for over a year now. It's time for some stick, since the carrot didn't work. There's no "debate" to be had, it's obstinance that's costing millions of dollars and thousands of lives. Philosophy is great and all, but it can go fuck itself when it tries to reckon with thousands of people choking out their dying breath, and their loved ones resigned to sit there and watch, and the people responsible for their care demoralized, exhausted and berated. If you think a vaccine is too high a price to pay for a place in society, do us all a favor and go into the woods and make a go of it alone or shoot yourself in the fucking head. You'll spare untold misery that way. Stop pretending there's anything reasonable or rational to debate here. There's not.