All I was saying is it would be nice not to be insulted when being given the first impression of someone, and then expected to be interested in them. No creativity/high level of interest/intelligence required, at least to open up the conversation. I am actually very comfortable with small talk. Being a female, and all, I just needed to know "What were they thinking?" Edit: Or, I can just listen to Beefy Phil.
The PUA negging thing shits me to fucking tears. It's stupid and ethically fucking repugnant. But it works for a reason. Challenging someone's ego is a high margin way to engage and get a conversation going. And since morons make up a large segment of the 'girl in a club' demographic - it probably gets a lot of guys laid. And at the very least, it gets a lot of socially awkward morons a conversation with a girl that lasts longer and costs less than buying a drink as an opener. I'm always astonished that anyone opens with anything other than 'Hi, I'm <name>. What's your name? Awesome, are you out with anyone? Yeah, that's my friends over there, how's your night going so far?' Really, introduce yourself, find out if she's out with a boyfriend, establish that you're out with friends and not a social outcast, make fucking small talk, lead from small talk into something more interesting depending on how the small talk goes. It's not that fucking hard.
You're just bitter because I'm graduating from a professional degree with no debt and a job. Isn't there a revolution in an Arabic country you need to be following?
The problem isn't negging, it's people who think a neg and an insult are the same thing. There's a huge difference between playful ribbing and a serious insult, you fucking faggot.
Ha, I actually had a Neg joke written out until I hit submit and saw it is already being argued about. I know there is a line between a true insult and a backhanded complement. But it always surprises me how well girls react to these types of comments. Not even a PUA thing, which they kind of make it seem malicious. If girls didn't react to it well it wouldn't be something we use amiright?
Not all guys are smooth and confident. I'd ask one of the following... "So, do you bleach your butthole?" "I see you're not wearing a rape whistle. I like a women who lives dangerously." "Every one of my exes had to have vaginal reconstructive surgery because of the size of my hog." Class fucking act.
I usually open with a crude and stupid comment because I'm a crude and stupid guy. Makes it easy to weed out the ones with souls.
Last month's Cosmo had "The love trick that makes him want you more." Trick is in the title, and the article is in Cosmo, so we're off to a very dubious start. This secret trick? The Rubber-Band Effect. Basically, if you pull away, he'll come after you. Ground breaking! "Contrary to how it may sound, this isn't about being manipulative. It's about understanding when and why a guy needs space." ...And then manipulating that.
The best analogy to this behaviour is that if you're talking with your hands after a few drinks and accidentally backhand the girl you're talking too as part of a big gesture - you're not a jerk - it was an accident. If you backhand a girl after a few drinks as part of a strategy to convince her that despite her previous disinclination to do so, she should totally fuck you, then clearly - it's not the same fucking thing. Regardless of the fact that well done ribbing is less immediately obnoxious than calling someone a fat bitch and hoping that it will magically make her want to blow you - the concept is still defined as making a seemingly innocuous comment to manipulate the subject into a state of lowered self esteem where they will feel a need for your attention and approval. That sort of shit happens by accident - when you tease someone as part of shit talking in conversation - and it's not an ethical issue because it's not an intentional manipulative act. When you intentionally go out of your way to damage someone's ego so you can manipulate them into behaviour that they wouldn't have otherwise engaged in - you're probably a jerk. As an aside - I love when feminists criticize the ethics of PUA's while subscribing to Cleo. Every magazine marketed to women for the last 30 years has been giving women advice on seducing guys and manipulating them into bullshit. That shit is just as obnoxious and far more common than PUA fucktardery - but that doesn't make PUA fucktardery right. And honestly? On a PUA forum, how many of the mouth breathers asking questions do you think actually have any fucking clue what the difference is between a neg and an insult? Let alone Peacocking and dressing like a douche bag who had a seizure in a drag queen's closet?
You're confused. My mom was the one that thought your childish fumbling was cute, yet ultimately ineffective and unsatisfying.
I never saw negging as a knock to the girl's self esteem. The point isn't make her feel bad about herself, it's simply to communicate "I'm not a pushover like the guys who've been covering your bar tab all night." What's really screwed up is that so many girls (and guys) think that failing to bend to a girl's will is insulting. If she says a lame joke and you don't laugh, then you're an asshole. But, if you say a lame joke, and she repeats it to all her friends for the purpose of making sure everyone knows how lame your joke is, then you're still an asshole. WTF?!
Fuck I hate the term "negging". And the whole thing about doing it IS to make her question herself, and prey on her insecurities. It's a put-down, and is manipulative, and whoever does it is a fucking douche bag. That's a shitty thing to do to someone, period, end of subject. And people wonder why they can't get into anything other than a vain, shallow, bullshit relationship these days. If you want to show that you're not a pushover, then don't be a pushover. I've had chicks try to play games, and I don't. Showing you're not a pushover should be in response to someone trying to play you, not as some sort of preemptive strike.
I'm entirely in agreement that many, many of the social norms implemented around Cleo/Cosmo/S&TC/The Rules/various other womens advice bullshit - are fucked. The children's size t-shirts that have slogans like 'The stupid factory, where boys come from' and 'boys are stupid, throw rocks at them' are the ones I think are particularly repugnant. But that kind of hypocritical bullshit is especially obnoxious. I can't imagine even wanting to fuck someone who expected me to laugh if their jokes flopped, let alone someone who couldn't take it when I made fun of them for telling an awful joke after the fact. But they're awful cunts so I should be able to be an awful cunt is a dumb argument when you're talking about ethics. And while I understand in life or death situations that you might resort to ditching ethics to win a war against the nazi's or something - I don't think there's either enough at risk, or enough benefit from ditching ethics in dating/trying to hook up - to justify it. I know that my experience is that being ethical and honest gets me laid far more than anyone I've ever seen try and use the PUA manipulative bullshit.