It is kind of surprising that something like gun laws, especially as a response to an increase in mass shootings, seems to have no nuance to the debate at all. Not gonna lie, I was in SC and planned to hit some pawn shops to see if I could find an AK (I was going to make some ridiculous Christmas card photos with my mom's yorkie). I don't see a particular class or type of weapon being the issue nearly as much as gun culture itself. As long as gun owners adhere to the fantasy, and this thread is a great example of how alarmingly detailed, thorough and vivid this fantasy gets, that you can use a gun to commit sanctioned murder in some imaginary boogeyman situation that the innumerable other layers of security would inexplicably fail to address, the torrent of death continues. I have guns. I have no illusion of ever using them to kill anyone else. If I was being threatened, I logically recognize that the only thing a gun in my hand does is ensure a much worse outcome. I have guns because range time is fun, hunting used to be fun, and that's about it. Guns are for killing shit, or practicing killing shit. "Protection" is horseshit: buy a helmet, a shield and a box of condoms. Ego and tv are also huge culprits in this part of gun culture. I don't care how many rounds I put through a weapon, I know in a "real" situation where I may use a firearm to defend myself, the chances of that going horribly wrong are much higher than it going right. In much the same way as if I had to do an emergency tracheotomy.... Also, the fantasy of the gun-defending, righteous, personal pro good ol' boy is perpetuated by the media. You don't hear of how many of those "but, it was self defense!" cases go down as murder, but you do hear of the cherry-picked examples all the fucking time. Statistically, how many of the THOUSANDS of gun murders each year do you think were committed because someone whipped out a firearm thinking they were totally justified in doing so, only to fuck around and find out? That number is far from zero, and I'd wager it is 10-20x that of the people who whipped out a firearm, someone died and they didn't go to jail. Fuck, Kyle Rittenhouse has a Messiah complex pretty much just because he thread that particular needle. Do we need laws to stop the threat of mass shootings? I don't know, there's a lot of range in that discussion. In much the same way I think cops should carry insurance, I think there's solutions to mass shootings that involve having more secure public spaces, and one's right to carry a firearm in an establishment subject to more than just the state's opinion of said asshat's capacity to do so. Since literally 100% of the shooters are men, there might be some self-examination there worth doing, and saying "OK, you can own guns, but you have to register with a 'militia' with your local PD and fire department, and much like the boy scouts, if they see you acting goofy, or if ANY OF THE MILITIA SPOUTS ANY IDEAS AT ALL ABOUT SHOOTING PEOPLE FOR FUN your guns go away. Let me repeat that: if you own guns and talk about murder, (that's illegal, you see), your guns go bye bye. Period. We as a country do not entertain elaborate fantasies about murdering our fellow countrymen anymore. And your community does it's part to ensure you're a safe, healthy, responsible gun owner and said ownership contributes to said community. No more "lone wolf" lunatics collecting an arsenal to shoot FUCKING CHILDREN, because a bunch of dudes seeking compensation avenues watched "Death Wish" too many times and think they need to be able to defend the homestead from zombie clown bears or what the fuck ever. If we learned anything from Uvalde, it's that the cops whose literal responsibility is to neutralize a shooter refused to use their guns, then if the 'militia method' I described had been in place, the shooter would have been kept from owning a nerf gun, and there wouldn't be dozens of child corpses. For the record, I've been shot at before in high school, because I was in the car with a buddy who fucked a girl he apparently shouldn't have. Again: I was in a vehcile that was fired upon, as a child, because another child fucked someone's high school girlfriend. The stupidest fucking threat to my life I can think of, and in that scenario, I'm just cosmically fortunate that no one else had a firearm to shoot back, and that the person shooting was content to put a hole in the bumper of a Tahoe instead of a classmate. Said shooter later committed suicide, affirming that this macho bullshit is a death cult sucking it's own cock.
I agree with this. I am 100% down for requiring continued education hours -- like we do for lawyers, doctors, teachers, etc. -- in the form of safety and range courses, annual safety recertification courses, purchasing waiting periods in some instances, a tax on guns and ammo that goes toward helping victims of gun violence and/or our mental healthcare, increasing spending on mental healthcare, quarterly background checks (so like if someone bought a gun with a clear background, but then commits a felony later, that raises a flag).... basically I'm for a whole host of things that would actually tangibly help the gun violence problem. However, the issue you run into is a Constitutional one: "Shall not be infringed." In the same way that I don't personally agree with Texas' new permitless carry, I also agree that there is a Constitutional basis for it. And even if you think, as I do, that restrictions on gun ownership are perfectly okay, then you also have a heavily biased Supreme Court which isn't supposed to be a political entity but it is, because... well, Trump, and all the assholes who voted for him. So good luck getting that past them. Only way I see any reasonable change is if we elect a President who will expand the number of seats on the Supreme Court first, and then help pass an Amendment after that. But "assault" weapons ban? Get outta here with that shit.
Is it really all that surprising? Everything has been dumbed down to a simple black or white statement that can fit in a Tweet for a reason; most people are unable to carry on a civilized, nuanced conversation any more, so it doesn't matter. All that matters is that you pick a side, and make a statement that declares what side you're on. And the other side is automatically wrong, and there's nothing that can be said that will change your mind, but if you yell it louder, that will have a chance. Shoot at them as a final warning for them to change their mind. THAT is how people have been brainwashed into behaving these days.
The home invasion fantasy is always interesting to me. FBI crime data says that about a million burglaries happened in 2020. A third of those were non-residential, and someone is home only a quarter of the time. A lot of the crimes are happening in extremely low-income areas (Native American reservations are disproportionately represented), or in student housing (where it'd often be illegal to have a gun anyway). A chunk of burglaries are simple car thefts as well where the burglary part was just breaking into a garage with no threat to family. Criminals are 3x more likely to pick a home without a security system and the rate is lowered even further by just doing smart things like having a deadbolt, good exterior lighting, or not posting travel plans on social media, so there are already significant things you can do to reduce your risk. So you're already in this vanishingly small statistical minority and the stars have to align even if you do end up in that situation where you're near your gun, have warning enough to get it, aren't precluded from getting/using it for any of the myriad of reasons that could occur (like, if the person invading also has a gun and is willing to shoot you or a loved one, or your loved ones are in the way when you go to use it). The numbers are fuzzy and tough to ascertain. I'd like to see additional work that actually tabulates the number of home invasions that are prevented or ended specifically due to the presence of the homeowner's firearm - most of the studies agree with my theory but boiling things down to actual numbers is a challenge. I'd also like to add here that I've spent a lot of years on gun ranges because I shot competitively for a while, so it's not like I'm a stranger to firearms or don't enjoy using them. But the whole, "I need to be able to own a gun because someone's going to break into my house and I'll be able to heroically shoot them" doesn't seem to be very realistic.
I wonder how much of that is tied into the bullshit TV shows and movies that portray that kind of thing ALL THE TIME, to the point that it is the normalized outcome? We constantly get presented with events and scenarios that are so incredibly rare that we think it's going to happen to us. Take a look at the change in kids walking to school. When I went to school, you were kicked out the front door and walked the 20 minutes to school. These days, mothers have the police called on them if they have their kid walk a block to the school. It's fucking nuts.
I'm sure that's part of it, but I also think it has just become an accepted, unquestioned part of the culture surrounding firearms. Why do you own them? Home defense! Nobody even blinks. Because of course everyone wants to protect their families. Of course everyone would die for their kids. It's such a deeply emotional topic that it's almost impossible to have a discussion about, because who can find fault with saying that you want the power to stop someone who tried to bring harm to your family? But at a certain point, it's also saying that we accept all preventable gun deaths to enable people to maybe guard against some extremely specific scenarios that don't seem to stand up in the real world.
For what it’s worth ( all 0.02 of it ) so long as any “discussion” involves people who think because I have a CCW, I must sit around jerking off, fantasizing about shooting someone, I can’t have said discussion. I don’t carry as much as I used to for several reasons, among them I like to stop for a drink now and then and NEVER mix firearms with alcohol. But when I did, including in the job, I prayed to any and every god that would listen, including the one with an upcoming birthday, that I never had to take it out of the holster except to return it to the safe. And I can think of at least one time someone got aggressive with me, and I did the whole “hands up, we’re cool” thing to de-escalate. Again, because I entertain no fantasies of “getting some”. Fact is, I’d bet the percentage of gun owners who do are minuscule. Most of us want to be left the fuck alone and have the right to defend ourself and our loved ones, God forbid we’re ever thrust into a situation necessitating we do so.
Fantasy? Who's? I watched a video, thought about it and gave my perspective. But, actually shooting someone is the last thing I want to complicate my life with. That is likely true for the massive majority of gun owners. More and more, it is not fantasy for someone to drag you from car because you accidentally cut them off. My neighbor has bullet holes in her Chevy HHR from a crotch rocket rider she accidentally pissed off on I-85. You know what, when people change and act more like me, kind and forgiving, I'll leave my gun at home. Until then, piss off.
I wish I saw more CCW folks, because at least in SC, it means you took some class and have a clean enough record, etc. If I'm ever down there for long enough, sans pandemic, I'd probably get one myself. My motivation for doing so would be that it's good for work purposes (I've requested a few details/temp gigs with DHS), it helps in dealing with law enforcement down there, and it's the most accessible firearms class I can think of. Also, if I started going to the range more often, it would hopefully cover me from any dumb shit like forgetting to lock a case, etc. The question I have is: if your stance is "God forbid we ever have to", and "last resort", etc. why carry? All snark and bullshit aside, there has to be some level of cognitive dissonance there. If that's truly the last resort, then why not carry something like the next to last or the 3rd last from the end? Fuck, I bet you could carry a ballistic knife, or a baton or just about fuckin anything....but you chose to carry a weapon. There's something inherently incongruent in the stated values and decisions there, or at least it would appear to me. I had a buddy who carried a shit ton of cash and six-figure checks for work, and he made it a point to carry and to some extent advertise that he carried. At one level, it made sense: he's a visible target for a robbery because of the value of the shit he's carrying, and wanted to visibly dissuade any potential robbers (as well, I'd assume, make law enforcement pay attention to him). Shooting the shit one day, one of us asked him: "fuck man, why don't you just let Brinks do that shit for you, and you can not walk around like you're about to get got all the damned time?" That's when it kind of struck me that: this is something that appeals to him to do, and his whole schtick of "last resort", "worst case scenario", "God forbid" etc. didn't reflect a full range of options, but the ones that just made sense to him in a distorted worldview of "safety".
"I don't wanto to shoot anyone, but I maintain that I need the ability at all times, despite not having a clear or credible threat, nor a way to do so with legal clarity." Again, it just seems to have a level of incongruence there. I ride a "crotch rocket" (fuck that term, suck my crotch rocket) and....fuckin what? Someone takes their hands off a motorcycle to shoot an HHR? This doesn't sound like a bad fast and the furious scene to you? That makes no sense whatsoever, and yet that scenario compels you to carry a gun around? It sounds like "my neighbor got his dick bitten off by a dragon, so I better sport this uranium halberd everytime I go to the garden." Like, think of the thousands of miles you put on your car, day in day out, year after year. One episode of that is enough to carry weaponry? It's like...I see one mouse in my house after 30+ years in it, and rather than getting a cat, some traps or whatever, I put a West African Death Pit Ass Viper in my basement, just in case knowing full well the most likely victim of that little nightmare noodle will be me or my family. "Be more like me, or I will carry a gun around and intimidate those who I do not deem up to my standards of kindness" seems like a REALLY problematic way to go through life in a diverse society of folks, don't you think? Especially considering how some of your less scrupulous peers seem to have a penchant for murdering people, and it's really starting to become difficult to count the gun owners who don't spentd at least a little time fantasizing about shooting their fellow civilians in cold blood. Here's my question: in what case WOULD you use a gun, that justifies carrying it around, maintaining it, paperwork, etc. What's the positive use case here?
Because if it's your life or mine, I'm choosing my life. That being said, I also carry pepper spray in my left pocket. Anyone who actually wants to use lethal force, probably shouldn't be carrying. But every time I go to the movie theaters, or a parade in our little town, or any crowded place, my butthole puckers a little bit. I'm not an aggressive person by nature. My natural first inclination is to de-escalate, hands up, no big deal let's move along. But not everyone is like this. Since I have guns, and am proficient with them and use them all the time anyway, it's a natural, effective, and easy way to guard against a high improbable but highly deadly event. For example, if you knew that there was a very rare disease that had also had a super high mortality rate, but that was super easy to protect yourself against, wouldn't you take those precautions?
As a Canadian i would love to have some form of CCW. I would love to have a S&W 460/500 for walking through the bush, and something to throw in the glove box for long road trips when i decide to sleep on the side of the road, though with kids i don't do this anymore.
You can get one, but it's VERY hard to qualify. If you transport large amounts of cash or high value property, like a diamond courier, then you can get one. My dad, decades before he died, ran a condo management company that had some huge apartment buildings in Toronto, and he'd collect rent in cash from a shit-ton of people. He had a security guard who had the Canadian version of the CCW to protect him when he was on site collecting that cash. He'd routinely have $30k in cash on him on rent day.
Believe it or not, one of the easiest ways to get a CCW in Canada is to be a trapper. You don't even have to be an active trapper, just have a current trapper's license, and you qualify.
If you can make a case that you need a handgun to protect your life from wild animals, that qualifies you. Hell, one year I was working in a remote pulp and paper mill, we had a ton of wild bear and mountain lion attacks. I bought a new rifle that year (a sweet Browning A-Bolt .30-06 that I still have as my main hunting rifle), and I was able to claim it on my taxes as "personal protection in the wild". The accountant looked at me weird, I sent him a few articles about people getting attacked, and he submitted it. It went through. Free rifle!