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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Juice

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    The most important reason to vote for a Democrat is to prevent Russia from overrunning Europe next year. I'd rather Russia get stopped in Ukraine than a full-blown war if they push to NATO.
     
  2. NatCH

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    Piggybacking off what DnD said and to add to my last posts, I see now that my phrase made it sound like “I would vote for Biden, but…”

    what I meant was, I’m already assuming he’s dropping out, so voting for him is gonna be moot.
     
  3. downndirty

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    The danger of a binary choice is that it leads to the perception that they are equal, but different or equally different. They are not.

    Biden's age and mental issues are not insignificant, especially when compared to other candidates.

    They are not significant when you compare them to the risks of another Trump term.

    The risk of another Trump term is wildly higher, from the likelihood of another SC appointee, to the Project 2025 shit, to the increasing likelihood of economic calamity (remember how Biden's whole economic shit was cleaning up the covid-induced mess, from inflation to the PPP crimes). The threats of political violence have continued to escalate and they are simply not being taken as seriously as they should. The international fallout, the defense fallout, on and on and on. Trump is detrimental to nearly every US interest I can think of.

    The risk of another Biden term isn't as existential to democracy, rights, etc. Biden has not threatened violence, nor erasure of norms, rights, processes, rule of law, etc. Trump is a nightmare, Biden is a milder version of Reagan's second term.

    The two are not comparable, but this choice is predicated on a set of shared values used to assess each candidate. Increasingly, the way folks assess Biden as a candidate and why he's worth their vote is wildly divergent from what folks see in Trump. Trump voters do not seem to care about a free and clear election, for example. They do not seem to care about democratic norms.

    The frustrating part is the Democratic coalition didn't build a bench and there's not a clear-cut succession plan. Trump's MAGA movement will die out without him, but the GOP coalition won't fragment so hard: the religious folks who want to legislate sex aren't going Democrat, but they won't have as easy a shot at nationwide legislation. The business interests seeking privatization of everything and the rollback of regulation won't go Dem, but they will find ways to work to get their agenda pushed. The African American, Latino, LGBTQIA+ (fuck if I know what some of those letters mean, I looked them up the other day), and minority coalition will shift, and the signs are worrying. Most of that shift has occurred due to Dobbs where Latinos do not support abortion and their take on immigration isn't aligned to the Democratic side, but the Biden response to police brutality, Israel/Gaza, etc. will all continue to threaten this loose alliance.
     
  4. Aetius

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    I'm still amazed that the people who were more than happy to let a few thousand American soldiers die in Iraq, while spending over $1 trillion, for... what? are super duper pissed at the "cost" of letting Ukraine rummage around in our storage closet.
     
  5. GTE

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    A vote for Biden is essentially a vote for Harris as we all know he's not making it four more years. Do you think we'd be having the discussion if Harris wasn't so disliked?
     
  6. downndirty

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    Yes, we would. Her popularity isn't an issue, Biden's is. She's polling 2-6 points behind Biden, who's polling 2-4 points behind Trump, all within the margin of error. She shouldn't be anywhere close to Biden, and she hasn't benefitted from any of the campaign thus far. The campaign has just been about Biden. The last Dem candidate that won the kind of support needed was Obama, and while she may not have his charisma or bona fides, she's got a huge advantage in that her opponent is Trump. Another advantage is she can flip her cabinet posts, to enlist more aggressive campaigners on her own behalf. Once this goes public, you'll have folks like Mayor Pete stumping for her for his job.

    I read this as more of an unknown quantity than unpopular. I genuinely don't know much about her platform or policies, aside from a rough notion of her days as a prosecutor in CA. I don't think she'll hinge her campaign on a bunch of policy nuances either. Broad strokes painted with "Not an old white guy, and definitely not Trump."

    This is a move to shore up a lack of bench, to be sure. 2024 is the last election where Boomers are the target audience. In 2028, Millennials will be the largest voting cohort, and GenZ will be fully engaged as well (no college-era difficulties with distance voting!). Having Harris queued up now, so she can run again in 2028 avoids a major lurch left that has been anticipated since the Tea Party movement. The logic here is "Kamala now, so no AOC in 2028". We know the pendulum swing left is coming, if for no other reason than the entire narrative on the Millennial generation's economics, and they will be more insistent as the entire cohort enters middle age between now and 2028.

    Also, I'm calling it: she'll do some sort of Oprah interview where her own experience with sexual assault comes out, and makes running against Trump "personal".

    She needs to win 6 states, it'd be nice if it were 8-9, and she needs to not lose the rest. It's not unrealistic, and given the math on Biden, it's starting to look safer as the days wear on. It's a much easier play to donors and supporters: help Kamala carry GA...we need $X to outspend Trump in MI....Biden has kept most of his war chest until the last leg of the campaign, and she's been quiet the entire time, even for a VP.
     
  7. Kubla Kahn

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    Run a clearly accelerating declining geriatric while making all of the excuses you want. If you want to defeat this ArchDemon in Trump you’re going to have to realize there are enough voters in swing states that look past all of the things about him you pull your hair out over and also are more concerned with Biden’s health than coming to Jesus about Trump.
     
  8. Binary

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    Trump is a colossal piece of shit who is encouraging a level of hatred and dangerous rhetoric that I've not seen in my lifetime in this country.

    We have nearly a decade of watching this man in the political spotlight. At this point, if you are voting for Donald Trump, ignorance is no longer a mitigating circumstance. He has been too loud and too clear about who he is. There is no media slant or bias in this - the man is explicitly clear about his positions, and the party is very deliberate about their policy goals.

    To turn a phrase that has been used for Trump in the past - not everyone who votes for Trump hates [women/minorities/poor people/educated people], but all of them have decided that hatred of those demographics is not a deal breaker.

    It should be a deal breaker. At this point, Trump voters are either dangerously stupid or dangerously malicious. I don't know that, "awww but Cletus don't really hate nobody" is a reasonable defense.
     
  9. Juice

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    I don't mind handing them deprecated hardware that cost more to dispose of normally instead of than going to fight in eastern Europe or having my son do so in 15 years.
     
  10. Aetius

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  11. Juice

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    I know what I'm getting you for Christmas.
     
  12. Fiveslide

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    It might be a good investment. You don't know how valuable that could be in the future. Like my Dale Earnhardt shot glass, just waiting for it to moon before putting it on ebay.
     
  13. AFHokie

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    The fact that Trump and his supporters have been as successful as they have been at dehumanizing their opponents & perceived opposition is what scares the shit out of me.
     
  14. Rush-O-Matic

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    Trump people took an arrest and turned it into a way to bolster his campaign, Biden people took a poor debate performance and are turning it into a way to get him out of the campaign.

    I remember when there were presidential campaigns where the candidate's biggest flaw was being too Mormon. It's bizzarro world.
     
  15. NatCH

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    Well, to be honest, I don’t want a true blue Mormon anywhere near the White House.

    Call me crazy…but they’re still crazier. Thank God Tim Ballard’s “blowies for Jesus” scandal came to light.
     
  16. Rush-O-Matic

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    But that's the thing. That's not an option. Where we're at now, you don't get to just say "I don't want a Mormon in the White House." You do get to choose between a Mormon and a rapist, or you get to choose between a murderer and pedophile, or you get to choose between a psycho racist criminal liar and a lifelong special privilege favor dementia liar!
     
  17. NatCH

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    That’s just a whole lotta other words for “Mormon.”
     
  18. Crown Royal

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    Mormons think Jesus and Lucifer/Satan are brothers who lived on a spaceship. And that god was 6’2” and straight up dicked Mary down. Their prophet (a career criminal and pedophile) learned this from reading invisible scriptures using —and I quote from them— “Magical Glasses” and wearing fruit-of-the-looms that make you invincible.

    But…. No dancing allowed.

    Whatever anybody else is, Mormons follow under an objectively goofy and psychotic cult. They shun their own fucking loved ones just like Scientologists do, too (I personally know people this happened to). All of their historical heroes fucked kids. Give them power? Fuck them entirely.
     
    #22838 Crown Royal, Jul 9, 2024
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2024
  19. Aetius

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  20. downndirty

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    Trump is avoiding public appearances for a week and a half now. Per inside the compound, he's worried Biden drops out. The RNC is next week, and he has to announce his VP pick then. He's trying to lay low until then and is trying to avoid causing the Dems to push Biden out.

    The Epstein shit getting his name back out there for rape isn't good either. The project 2025 stuff being tied to his campaign isn't good either, and his denial is the aforementioned "making the sumbitch say he didn't fuck a goat" strategy executed to perfection. The Heritage Foundation and the cunts running it all have photo ops with him over the years, and they literally wrote legislation he signed into law and made suggestions for his Cabinet (which he then hired).

    Gee, it's almost like he shouldn't be elected because he very plausibly raped a child and is willing to strip civil liberties and rights on behalf of a bunch of religious fruit fuckers.

    Trump thinks he can beat Biden (and he has the polls to back up that notion). He does not think he can beat Harris, and he definitely does not want to debate a fucking prosecutor. Supposedly, the ticket is Harris/Newsome, but I'd be a buyer for Harris/Pritsker or someone from a swing state...hell, even Beto.