This is nonsense. This isn't "base tribalism" - nobody was born with a "D" or an "R" tattooed on their foreheads. Stop acting like the decision to support democratic/liberal or republican/conservative policies is an arbitrary, meaningless choice. I support democrats because I believe in (for the most part) the democratic platform. Why would betray almost everything I believe in and support the opposing party simply because my party's candidate isn't squeaky clean (irrespective of the fact that the other candidate is problematic in his own way)? That would be pure idiocy. Using myself as an example, if the republican party wants to court my support it needs to first and foremost get rid of all the garbage positions it holds and replace them with something I find palatable. Worry about the likability of the candidate afterward. And don't start with the whole, "Nothing has changed" bullshit. Have you been living under a rock for the past 8 years? The legalization of marijuana in two states - which may be the catalyst for beginning to end the War on Drugs - means nothing? The growing ability for homosexual couples to be allowed to marry in states across the nation means nothing? The assault on women's reproductive rights means nothing? What change counts in your book?
I've said it several times. I would vote republican if their platform wasn't based around the fear of gays, minorities and poor people. I don't find the ideas of small government and less taxes to be a bad thing. That's just not what the Republican Party seems to be about.
Umm...you yourself said 3-4 posts ago "...the primary reason I'm voting for Hillary is that she's the democratic candidate, which is why Benghazi, email servers, faoundation donations and all that other shit doesn't matter to me." This is literally saying other things don't matter because she's your candidate. There have been Republican versions of this line of thinking on this thread as well. Going to extremes in an attempt to prove your point(the "R" and "D" tattoos on the forehead) will not change that. Call that whatever you wish, my definition still stands. You are right in that I completely forgot about gay marriage, which is admittedly awesome. But by and large Obama, the self-described candidate of "change" has been anything but. He has completely legitimized most(if not all) Bush-era foreign policies (you know, the exact things he campaigned against), Guantanamo bay is still open, and our nobel peace prize winner has not only not gotten us out of Iraq/Afghanistan, but has gotten us into more "excursions" in various middle-east countries(and that's not even getting into the whole "NSA is spying on literally everything we all do" matter). Simply put, "Mr. Change" has been so much the antithesis of change that, due to everyone's frustration with the status quo(the very thing that was supposed to change), Sanders and Trump came/are dangerously close to winning the Presidency.
And like I just said, it's not because of tribalism. Tribalism would be something like if I supported the democratic candidate because my parents were democrats, therefore I'm a democrat and always support them. I support democratic causes/candidates because they represent my beliefs, not because I have some blood allegiance to the democratic party. If the democratic platform changes to go against my beliefs (or my beliefs change) and another party's platform better matches up to my beliefs, then I'll change my party allegiance. Why is this so problematic to you?
Look, you said the the fact that she's the democratic candidate is why the scandals do not matter to you. That statement has nothing to do with your beliefs, it's ignoring criticism of someone just because she's your party's candidate. If you meant to phrase that differently, say so and let's move on. But that is what you said. But take yourself out of the equation for the moment. There are scores of people on both sides doing this, and I was pointing out both that and the examples of that on this board. You do agree that that is happening, yes? Also, the definition of tribalism is "loyalty to a tribe or other social group especially when combined with strong negative feelings for people outside the group." Family member don't necessarily have anything to do with it(although it can be a factor).
I'm not suggesting anything...I don't have any answers. I wish I did. The only sure thing is that voting for the "lesser evil" every election cycle clearly is not working and that "towing the party line" is largely counterproductive to any meaningful change. So why should people automatically do either of those things?
We aren't. Trump and Hillary are both historic candidates. Neither one of them would be their parties first choice, if they were Hillary would have lost 8 years ago and Trump would be someone the Republicans avoided like the plague...back when he was governor, Arnold Schwarzenegger was a more likely and likable candidate. People are speaking up, otherwise candidates like Sanders and Trump wouldn't have made it on the map. It'll take a little while longer for this anger to trickle down to the state and local level, but it is happening.
If Trump loses, but in 4 or 8 years we get a non-establishment candidate that isn't an egotistical douchebag or a free university socialist I would be pretty happy with it.
I've been called by both a news station and Tood Young's campaign workers for polls/surveys. The news station one was standard faire (and I thought the questions were very neutrally worded, mainly "are you voting for a or b and what are the major issues you're concerned about, etc). The questions for the Todd Young survey, though, basically amounted to one factor I could tell they were looking for: Does Young's support of Trump affect my view of Young. They asked a grand total of 4 questions (besides basic demographic stuff), all about Trump and Young's support of him. I'm sure Young isn't the only senator or representative candidate who is worried about Trump costing them the election, but it was pretty clear what they wanted to know. I'm betting a lot of these polls are happening by republicans across America right now to figure out if dumping their support of Trump at the last minute could help or hurt them.
It'll hurt them. When looking across the whole board for people voting R on the ticket Trump support is lukewarm, but more people are going to turn away from down ticket candidates for not supporting Trump than people who would turn away for supporting Trump. That said, Trump's declining support over the last month is going to hurt them either way.
I think this is why they asked the very first question: have you already voted? Literally the first question they asked, and I think that was kind of telling, too. I can't change my mind and have a redo. If I say that his support of Trump was the reason I voted for him, I can't go take it back. They are likely factoring that into it. If enough pro-Trumpers got out for early voting, he can publicly withdraw his support for Trump two says before the actual Election Day and face a reduced backlash, and maybe get all those fence sitters that hate Trump to sway for him. They're probably hoping a lot of pro-Trump people already voted or are voting early so they can have their cake and eat it too. It's a dangerous gamble, but Young is behind by about 4 points right now and it's the kind of gamble he may be desperate enough to take if he thinks it'll secure him a very close win.
This is nothing really new, just more of the pile on. http://www.wsj.com/articles/clinton...steer-business-to-former-president-1477527597 Bill has already set up the policy sales for Hillary's presidency. $66 million more if he hits those incentives, yay. These aren't as bad as the taking bribes from foreign governments to set up arms deals, but rather it's just more of the Clintons. Of course not. This is generally how they respond to all the scandals. Even in the debate Hillary completely dodged the conflict of interest question. "The Clinton foundation is a paragon of goodness and we do amazing work, rainbows!" Surprised to see CNN is reporting somewhat honestly on this as well. Maybe because they see it as more of a Bill Clinton scandal than related to Hillary although they're obviously both deeply involved.
"Oh look over there. Russian baddies! Oh look over there. Racism!" Dude, that's like 70-80% of her campaign strategy. If ain't broke don't fix it.
How can you say that statement has nothing to do with my beliefs when it has everything to do with my beliefs? My beliefs are more important than all the stuff Clinton's been accused of, ergo that stuff doesn't matter to me. I don't see how there's confusion about it. Yes, which is exactly what I meant when I was responding to Kampf's post about why people aren't talking about the issues. Sure, but since we're talking about political beliefs, why is this bad? As I asked in my other post, why should I support a politician whose beliefs are diametrically opposed to mine? That would be irrational.
This isn't to single you out because it is topical to almost all people. Where do your beliefs come from? Where do most peoples political and religious beliefs come from? In your case, I recall you writing that you were brought up around feminists in previous posts, what influence did that have on your beliefs? Are the people closest to you Liberals?
I know this isn't addressed at me, but I'll address it anyway as a "dirty stupid liberal." My hometown in rural Indiana is very conservative. My school, teachers, and friends were all super conservative. Slick Willy was the devil around my town and area. That said, my parents were not. My dad is socially liberal, and learned from his dad. My family name has changed, as it used to be extremely ethnic Italian. With his last name, my grandpa couldn't get jobs and often faced persecution (reminder: he was Italian during World War II, do the math). He changed his name and looked non-Italian enough to pass, but he always instilled in my dad (and my dad in me) a deep appreciation of not being a prejudiced dick. Not towards those with different religions, races, or (when it came up) sexual orientation. We never ever discussed taxes or money, so I found myself fiscally conservative but socially liberal. What this means: I see people of different races struggle to find work and get told "you're poor cause it's your fault," by someone born white and male in America (which is the genetic equivalent of being born on second but claiming you hit a double) and I think bullshit. I think I need to know more. I don't automatically assume all jobless black people are gangsters. I don't assume all Muslims are going to call for jihad. I don't assume all republicans are racists (though I do assume all racists tend to be republicans in that particular Venn diagram), and I don't think gay marriage is going to destroy the world (although to this boards credit, I think that is one thing virtually everyone here agrees on). I vote nationally based on my social views, and I'm sorry, Donny T is pretty much the antithesis of everything I want to see in a candidate, as is the entire republican platform. I've seen racism. As a teacher, I taught kids who would ask "I don't understand why those colored folk didn't just stay in their part of town, then they'd never have any trouble." I coached a football team that referred to the one multiracial team they faced as "the Jungle bunch" and say stuff like "boy them spics are as uppity as them colored boys." I did all this while the Supreme Court and others kept saying "nope, no racism here." They'd call Obama a monkey, as in "I'd never vote for that monkey." Last year, there was a lot of "that dirty cunt" Hillary, including more than a few "clever" bumper stickers in the parking lot that kids likely got from their "totally not racist" parents. I'd see guys walk down the hall in their menninist shirts and say stuff like "no just means she's a cocktease." Then I keep hearing how this election isn't about racism and sexism, despite the republicans nominating a guy who stands for all of the above. My students never said the n-word in front of me (they did plenty when they think I can't hear), but said plenty of racist shit. They would just fall back on "tell it like it is" or other shit. They were emboldened by Trump, I could hear it in the hallway. I'd love to vote based on stuff other than not wanting a hilariously racist and mysogynist asshole in office, but that's not what the republicans nominated. As I stated before I'd have happily voted for McCain before he went full Republican base and he nominated Palin. I was ready to vote for him over Obama because for the first time I can remember, I felt like social issues we're taking a back seat and we had progressed enough as a nation that I could reasonably vote republican. I like that he worked across the aisle and seemed reasonable, and had more experience. Then 8 years of obstructionism and we're at Trump, and we've gone utterly backwards. But hey, MAGA, right?
I hate Clinton because she's a sell out and I'm a red blooded Yankee, but she is better on the social issues. As far as those issues go it's Pence that worries me instead of Trump, but I'm probably slightly right of some of you guys on immigration.
For any left-leaning people who are stuck firmly in the voting for Hillary as the anti-Trump or simply as the Democratic candidate camp, I just found this blog today. It's written by a woman who was not a supporter of Hillary's during the primaries, but once she was decided as the nominee fell in line because she was so appalled by Trump, and spent all of her energy spreading anti-Trump information. At some point, a couple people on Facebook challenged her to shift her focus to doing something positive. This happened around 100 days before the election, so she decided to dedicate that time to see if she could vote for Hillary instead of against Trump. Every day she posted one thing she either already knew or was discovering from actually looking through her record and history and policies, and at one point transitioned from Facebook posts to turning it all into a blog. Most of the entries simply about bills she helped pass, or committees and initiatives she worked on, or policies she's outlined during her campaign. Others are more intangible. I haven't read the whole thing yet (she's in the 80s now) but I've been enjoying reading it. Plus it's just nice to see something positive. I actually discovered the blog because the woman who writes it promoted it in one of the secret Facebook groups for Hillary supporters I'm in, and man have those been interesting. There are regular discussions of why people want to be in a secret Facebook group, and the vast majority say they need to hide their Hillary support because of being in a red state or conservative family, and a huge number of those people are women saying they need to hide it from their husbands and just pantomime being a Trump supporter around him. A lot of them are more or less what you'd expect from that kind of story, where they still consider themselves a Republican but despise Trump. But I've been really interested in the ones who say they're jumping ship on being a Republican altogether because they love Obama so much, or they hate how obstructionist the Republicans have been, or they hate the right wing media, or they feel they've been abandoned or ignored by their party. Others have been secretly Democrat their whole life and have been outwardly outspoken Republicans everywhere but the voting booth And there has to be an equivalent for Trump, where people live in liberal areas or are from liberal families and are hiding their support for him. Even with there being hundreds of thousands of members in these groups, I'd guess it would equal to just a blip in the polls or voting trends or the actual election, but maybe not. I've just entirely given up on trying to get a feel for what people believe where and why and what direction the country is leaning in. There always seems to be one story on the surface level and the entirely opposite story happening right below it. I'm not even comforted by the polls giving Hillary such high chances to win. It still feels like literally anything could happen in the next two weeks.
I made it through one post. What the fuck is this? We're $20 trillion in debt, we have substandard healthcare relative to most the first world, and I've lived next to schools that can no longer afford up to date textbooks. I want to meet the assholes throwing our money away on this crap. If you want to stop bullying start disciplining the bullies instead of the teachers and coaches for doing their jobs, but noooo, parents these days would cry their fucking eyes out. Let's see how much money we can piss away on an awareness campaign that will never possibly work. Let's tell the kids to be nice! Hillary, you suck, YOU FUCKING SUCK. *I am not the target audience of that blog.