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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Aetius

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    His obsessive need to brand things is so incredibly obnoxious. It's like he speaks exclusively in thought terminating cliches.
     
  2. Nettdata

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    It's also interesting how he's pushing the narrative that he has complete power to pardon, when he clearly doesn't.
     
  3. Kampf Trinker

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    I realize I'm desensitized to this stuff at this point, but that actually looks fairly mild as far as crazy Trump rants go. I'm speaking purely in comparative terms. If/when Mueller finds the real damning evidence against Trump there is going to be a shit storm of epic proportions.
     
  4. downndirty

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    I think the media is running away with the "Trump asking about pardoning himself" narrative. He's not a legal expert, and in light of being investigated, and said investigation veering into things well before his political tenure, I'd ask my lawyers what my options were as well, which is what I think he did. Does Trump know of illegal activities? Maybe. Does he know what his powers are as president in this particular instance? Probably not, so he asked.

    He theoretically could pardon everyone and himself, but no President has ever pardoned himself, so there's a wonky legal argument there. He can't really be prosecuted, only impeached and he could quit with full benefits before an impeachment proceeding completed. That's my understanding of this situation anyway. If Mueller turns up dirt on Sessions, Manafort, etc. Trump will pardon them and is well within his powers to do so. Scummy, but legal.

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143602/back-work-how-democrats-win-americans-left-behind-new-economy
    Guaranteed Jobs?
    Any thoughts on how that would work (or if)?

    Nett brings up a good point: we have to remember that this incessant string of shit pus isn't normal. We should not feel accustomed to this at any point, and fatigue to Trump's nonsense plays in his favor (also Russia's).
     
  5. jdoogie

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    The other thing to keep in mind is that he only has the power to pardon from any federal crimes. If he or anyone else is brought up on any state charges (such as the rumored RICO case that's being talked about in New York) that's up to the governor of the particular state to pardon him/them from.
     
  6. xrayvision

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    He's trying to normalize the idea so that when he does it, it won't seem crazy. But this is why he is so stupid. He thinks he's persuading people but really, he is just giving us insight into his guilty mind.

    It's like when he saw Netanyahu last time just after he had that secret meeting with the russians and gave them highly classified intel from Israel. Then he went to see Netanyahu in his first overseas trip and said, out of no where, "I never said the word Israel." Just Jesus dude. It's like he's thinking, "see? I'm so smart. I just gave the whole thing plausible deniability." While he was actually de facto admitting to the world that he actually divulged classified Israeli info and possibly burned a source and maybe got them killed.
     
  7. Kampf Trinker

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    That is such a horrible idea I don't even know where to begin. I maintain that it shouldn't be that hard for the democrats to win in 4 years. Maybe I'm wrong, we'll see, but if they're going to push utterly asinine proposals like that I have no doubt they'll manage to get their clocks cleaned again.
     
  8. Kubla Kahn

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    I dont see why it wouldnt work as a political strategy, Trump promised everything to everybody. Why can't the democrats do the same thing?
     
  9. Kampf Trinker

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    Well, Bernie pretty much promised the moon and it didn't work. The thing is Trump made a lot of silly promises, but the idea of renegotiating trade deals and punishing companies that outsource all their labor was a lot less absurd than just promising to hire millions or tens of millions of people within the government with total disregard for whether or not the work was needed. I mean, I'm not saying Trump didn't make silly promises, but it was at least more plausible than what that article was suggesting.

    *With that in mind I think his promise on health care was something like "immediately way, way better care for way, way less money" which is the same sort of ballpark for being far fetched.
     
  10. downndirty

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    I can see this as part of a "New Deal": healthcare for all, and for those that fit a set of criteria, "guaranteed" jobs. It wouldn't be much different than AmeriCorps, and you "serve" for a year doing whatever you can to the tune of $26k/year. It would force a lot of businesses to pay a better baseline, get a ton of front line help in some areas, and I wouldn't imagine a ton of people would oppose a year of service for access to certain programs, like the GI Bill or long-term federal employment.
     
  11. Kampf Trinker

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    I'm just going to scratch the surface here, but two things, both of which are kind of important.

    1. We're $20 trillion in debt. The last thing we need is an immensely expensive government program while at the same time refusing to raise taxes. Much less a program that is pure waste.
    2. The idea is to pay these people what, like $12 an hour? That's below minimum wage in many areas of the country already. The idea that this is going to force corporations to pay the bottom wrung a middle class wage is just lunacy.

    I give the odds of a program like this being implemented somewhere around 0.1%.
     
  12. downndirty

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    Right, but how do we end this cycle?

    I can't imagine this program being funded without taxes, and I would envision all those taxes would be new, higher taxes, but rather a restructuring of our current tax code that closes a lot of loopholes. Also, this has been repeated ad nauseum, but our debt doesn't work the same as household debt, and it becomes a problem if/when the dollar isn't the de facto global currency.

    There are literally thousands of ghost towns where $26k/year to young folks would represent a smashing opportunity:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/lo...rk-and-those-who-dont/?utm_term=.94cec7543686

    There are also plenty of states who can't afford some of the things they need done, and programs like this would be a welcome remedy to some of the state crises.

    It would also go a long way towards workforce development (where our education system failed miserably), putting these folks on a track to actually be employable.
     
  13. xrayvision

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    The president tweeted what I consider to be a threat to GOP congressman. Sounds to me like he's talking about more than health insurance. Because the people he is threatening know about healthcare more than he does, so what is he referring to?
    IMG_7156.PNG
    Do you think that there is a chance that Trump has dirt on some fellow GOP and might be blackmailing them into passively supporting him?

    There seems to be a lot of information coming in about Russian money going to other congressman or at least them having knowledge of money getting funneled in.

    I think it would be hysterical if Trump, on his way out just dropped bombs on people and brought down other along side of him. Not just his family, but senators and representatives as well. It's purely speculation, but that threat sounded bad.
     
  14. shimmered

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    It fucking Baffles me that Trump, as a civilian, could never pass for a clearance. Ever.

    But because a quarter of the country bought his bullshit - a man who would without a doubt sing like a canary when under pressure, a man who is thus far incapable of keeping his goddamn mouth shut about ANYTHING has the responsibility of protecting our nation and its secrets.
     
  15. xrayvision

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    In addition, this whole repeal effort with endless failed attempts is coming straight from McConnell. I think Trump is possibly using him for this under some sort of threat.

    Back when Obama first learned of Russian interference, he notified the senate intel committee, I think.(either that or it was the leaders of both parties, I can't remember) Obama wanted to go public and let the people know what was going on. McConnell threatened to go public and blame Obama for using it to interfere in the election in order to help Hillary. Shortly after the election, McConnell's wife, Elaine Chao, was nominated to a cabinet appointment.

    I know I'm speculating, but I feel there is a good chance Trump might have dirt on McConnell with info about Russia, or he might be threatening to fire his wife off the cabinet if he doesn't keep working to get a repeal. If much of the GOP knew aboht Russian money coming in to help them and did or said nothing, that could be used against them badly.
     
  16. Nettdata

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    Or he's just making shit up and bluffing to get his way.

    Remember, "there are tapes"?

    Lordy!
     
  17. xrayvision

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    I don't think he's the antichrist. I just think he's dumb and heavily compromised. I also don't think them not repealing again is going to hurt them that much because the polls show the current repeal effort is hugely unpopular. I also think that if he doesn't get a repeal done, he loses his base and his approvals drop easily into the 20's. Once that happens, you will see an effort to get him out.

    What we do know however, is that there is tape of Paul Ryan saying he thinks Putin is paying Trump. In addition, I have read that Russian money has made its way to other GOP members and others at the very least have knowledge of it.(like Rohracbacher) If other members of the party have Russian money, Putin knows about it, and therefore, so does Trump. I think that tweet was directed at non-compromised GOP members because it claims it's far greater than they would understand.

    I know I sound like a goddamn conspiracy theorist, but I feel like this whole thing is deeper than it seems right now.

    I can't think of any reason why the GOP would still keep Trump there when they could just have Pence, repair their image, and prepare for 2018 and 2020 with a cleaner slate. The longer he stays in office, the worse it looks for them.
     
  18. Kubla Kahn

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    I dont see he can be a drooling idiot on one hand and on the other mafia Don in blackmail on the other.
     
  19. xrayvision

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    I think he's a drooling idiot compared to the people in DC investigating him. But I do think he's smart enough to be a shady business man for the years he has been one.
     
  20. downndirty

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    I don't buy the "Trump's a moron" label, any more than I did George W's. He's simply in over his head, and increasingly ensnared in a web he partially created.

    And he's not THAT stupid, he's just never been in a situation with nearly as much scrutiny and an investigative group this skillful (with admittedly few limits). Trump is used to a bully's game in which he's the heavyweight and he protects his brand. These people simply do not play that game, nor allow it to be played. Trump's not stupid, but he is a fish trying to climb a tree: hopelessly inept, and it's only a matter of time before he gives up.

    I would also reinforce he antagonized most of these departments to the point they don't want to work for him, or intimidated them (by threat of casual dismissal a la Comey) to the point they won't challenge him. I keep going back to this: he has no political capital. He talked shit the entire campaign in such a way that is simply classless and he wonders why they won't yell "how high" when he says "jump"?

    There is nothing to gain by working for him except the worst kind of cronyism: a position that gets yanked anytime you displease him. The risks for collaborating are huge: aside from the tremendous political backlash that's striking the Republicans in swing states, his historic unpopularity and the Russian collusion (which is starting to feel more and more real each day). I can't imagine anyone who takes their career seriously trying to work with Trump on anything significant, and his "legislative agenda" thus far has been laughable. None of it contains vision, just a bunch of knee-jerk reactions to Obama's/liberal positions on major pieces of policy. He gleefully is trying to pull down walls the previous administration carefully built, brick by brick, but he has no ability, vision or ideas on replacing them.

    I think the machine Trump built is great for destruction, but lacking a target, can't seem to build anything. He can't really blame the Democrats, he hasn't offered them any reason to collaborate. He can't coerce the divided Republican camp to do anything (thank God some of them are smart enough to not derail the entire country), and his next target is taxes? The same issue that caused the Republicans to shut down the government (yeah, look how well that turned out...the guvvies I know got BACK PAY for the time they missed, costing us more money than if they'd left well enough alone)?

    Forgive me, but this is hilarious: someone with no vision and no taste for details is going to tackle what might be the longest, most dense and complex administrative document ever crafted, with no help, no capital, an investigation into his personal life, and with no legislative accomplishments after a whopping 7 months in his first government job? I won't hold my breath, and I'm actually supportive of the Republican effort to simplify the tax code into something that doesn't invite fraud.