Elephants and Jackasses...

Maybe I'm an outlier here, but to me showing respect for the anthem and flag doesn't mean you agree with the president. It doesn't mean you think our government is perfect or that our country hasn't or continues to make mistakes.

What it does mean is that for a brief moment we can all acknowledge that we're part of a collective greater then ourselves or our differences. It doesn't matter if you're left or right, black or white, Christian or atheist, straight or gay. It's just an acknowledgement that we're all in this together. If everyone who had a disagreement with the way this country is run protested the flag and anthem, no one would be standing.

 

I think the prevailing nonsense on why Kap doesn't have a job is similar to Tebow: why go through the circus and distraction for a backup? He might be better than a handful of backup QB's, but when this whole thing started...his play was shit.

Kap, or any other player has a right to protest. Fair's fair. No one has to like it, approve of it, appreciate it, etc.

The media are the ones taking this whole thing and turning it into a shit-storm. That is the part that feels like a distraction from declining quality games, the CTE controversy, the void of interest in two teams in LA, and the decline in youth football. Look at ESPN's home page on Sunday: a dozen articles on the protests, two on the games. That's fucking annoying, and I would argue bad journalism on their part, clickbait at the least.

Then Trump jumps in and calls them "sons of bitches", a few weeks after saying the people protesting in Charlottesville were "very fine people". It's not a good look.

Ted Cruz watching incest porn on 9/11, 3 million Americans without power, people openly carrying Confederate battle flags...let's be real: it's been a crazy disrespectful month in America. This is a pointless outrage scenario, where a bunch of people get upset about something meaningless.

 

The fun part will be when the NBA season and those players get in on the action. In a lot of ways, they are already starting to. They don't give a fuck about your safe spaces.

I may not always agree with what they're protesting, nor would personally engage in protesting in that manner, but I do support their ability to protest in whatever non-violent manner they so please. If it's taking a knee, or locking arms, or staying in the locker room, well then at least they're doing something peaceful about their beliefs and not just sitting idly by. While I don't share many of those beliefs, I certainly respect their right to have them. And I give them props for doing something about it.

I think that these kinds of uncomfortable conversations are necessary in order for us to ultimately improve as a country.

 

And it can mean different things to different people. I can't get the link right now but at first Kapernick was sitting when he started this and an army ranger who played in the NFL told him instead he should kneel because to him (the ranger) he viewed that as a symbol of respect and what he would do when honoring a fallen soldier. So in Kap's mind he is still showing respect to those who defended the flag and what it represents but also saying hey there's some stuff we should work on and we aren't there yet.

But, instead of responding to what he is trying to bring attention to everyone has shifted the conversation to arguing about the method of protest to avoid the actual discussions that need to be had.

 

This whole thing has been nothing but a huge win for Trump. He completely changed the meaning of a symbolic gesture and both bases on each side ran with it. Now, if you kneel down, you hate America which completely validates Trumps base. If you don’t kneel down, Trump can take credit for you agreeing with him(even if you dont) and the left can froth at the mouth about you being a racist white supremacist. While none of that is actually true, the media and the teams allowed him to direct the narrative.

Scott Adams, the creator of Dilbert has been making the rounds on various podcasts because he respects Trump’s abilities at persuasion. I don’t agree with everything he says and I feel he sometimes makes Trump out to be way smarter than he is, but this is a good example.

Trump knows this is good which is why he is still endlessly tweeting about it. I just wonder what the Puerto Rican body count will be when it’s all over.

 

I'll ask this again and see if anyone wants to take a stab at it. Do you think Kaepernick actually accomplished anything with his protest? Is so, why?

People are so big on raising awareness, but I don't see the point if all it does is piss people off.

I also find it odd that some people don't get why others don't like the constant bombardment of politics in sports and other areas. Is it really that hard to understand why some of us don't want to deal with that bullshit 24/7? I don't see how someone looks at this toxic political partisan climate and thinks "Gee, what we need is more of this in more places all the time." Don't you people ever want a break from this shit?

The idea that the protests make people uncomfortable because "Now they have to hear about it" is hilarious. Yeah, we had no idea. How else would we have ever heard about police brutality being protested if not for Kaepernick?

Ha! Not these republicans. I don't know if there's ever been a party that has controlled so much and has been so inept at getting anything done. Their inability to accomplish anything is staggering.

 

Given how thoroughly this has topic has permeated, well, everything in the news/sports/internet/politics/whatever. I'd say yes.

Is it addressing the issue he was likely hoping for (police brutality/racism/etc) in any meaningful and constructive way? Not as such, no.

 

I think the fact that people are getting so pissed off is illustrating exactly what the problem is. Instead of stopping for 2 goddamn seconds to think about what he is trying to say, people are choosing to deliberately misinterpret his message to avoid talking about a real problem.

 

I get the protest or at least the meaning behind it and the right of those doing so to do so. I guess I have a small problem with the way some have reacted to those who chose not to and explained why. Such as Drew Brees.

Quote: "I disagree with what the President said and how he said it," Brees said. "I think it's very unbecoming of the office of the President of the United States to talk like that, to the great people like that, and, obviously, he's disappointing a lot of people."
"Let me say this first - do I think that there's inequality in this country?" Brees said. "Yes, I do. Do I think that there's racism? Yes, I do. I think there's inequality for women in the workplace; I think there's inequality for people of color, for minorities, for immigrants.

"But as it pertains to the national anthem, I will always feel that if you are an American, that the national anthem is the opportunity for us all to stand up together, to be unified and to show respect for our country. To show respect for what it stands for - the birth of our nation. There will always be issues with our country, there will always be things that we're battling and we should always strive to make those things better." "If the protest becomes we're going to sit down or kneel or not show respect to the flag of the United States of America and everything it symbolizes and everything it stands for, everything our country has stood for to get to this point, I do not agree with that," Brees said. "I feel like that is a unifying thing."

I find it difficult to believe that his stance could be offensive to anyone and yet Michael Smith, Jamele Hill, and Ryan Clark seemed to have a big issue with it on Sportscenter the 6, I haven't been able to find it to quote it here though.

Also, as someone against police brutality (on whatever level it is really happening, it's not ok), against disrespectful idiots who push the limits to video police officers losing their cool, and one who knows there are three sides to every story that kind of blend together; I wonder just what the protesters expect the average citizen to do. I have no effect on anyone's life outside of my little slice of the world. How do I help address inner city issues (education, crime, poverty, victim mentality, disrespect) when I don't live there and won't live there? We can find enough scholarly reviewed studies to show that more African Americans are arrested because of institutional racism, or because they commit more crimes. We can find enough to suggest pretty much anything so it's anything but a forgone conclusion as to why it happens. I don't want to listen to sports commentators talk about politics though, so just what exactly are we supposed to do?

 

For one, I think Kap's protest has achieved a desired effect: it's gotten the attention of the country. Imagine Obama handling it: "right to protest", "we as Americans", Nothing to see here folks, not poking the controversy bear, move along. He also got damn near every member of the NFL to respond (including the owners, the president of the NFLPA and a host of retired hall of famers) and acknowledge that a conversation must be had.

Trump has waded into it, forcing this into center-stage.

A mediocre backup quarterback that can't find a job just forced the entire media machine and government of the United States to address what in all other circumstances is a minor display.

It was on Al-Jaz and BBC News...nothing Matt Cassel or Ryan Mallett has done will make that level once their respective playing careers are over.

Has it helped him? Not in the short term, but it's possible that it will cement him a place in a larger history. Think about how Michael Bennett's arrest went, or how someone like Kap gets treated in a place like San Fran. For a player that is, in the larger scheme of things unremarkable, he certainly made an impression on the game and it's plausible he will be remembered for it.

In all honesty, compared to some of the BLM movement's protests, or other means of drawing attention to the issue (as far as I understand it, his protest is against the police treatment of African Americans) is respectful, poignant and dignified.

 

He's also using his stance as a central figure in this issue to donate a million dollars of his own money, plus proceeds from his jersey sales, plus (I think) additional donations to his foundation to support various organizations and causes that address all different kinds of issues that affect ~ inner city ~ communities. What organizations and how much money to each and what the money goes toward is broken down every month on his foundation's website. So, it's been tied into a fundraising effort for months now, along with promoting these organizations that people can then learn about and support directly. Plus, he's started these free workshops for teenagers to educate them on their rights when interacting with police, and giving them tactics to do what they can to help avoid escalating a situation. They've spread to a couple cities by now and there's interest in bringing them to more places.

 

If people are going to make that fucking retard into an icon we have become a deeply stupid country.

Not that that wasn't already evident by the latest election.

I mean, I appreciate what the guy does as far as charity work goes, but how anybody could listen to that guy discuss politics on anything for even 2 minutes and take him seriously is beyond me.

 

When you make such an eloquent argument it's hard to see why anyone would ever disagree with you.

 

Well what more do you want from him? He's used his stature as NFL starting quarterback (at the time) to call attention to an issue that's important to him. Presuming everything Audrey says is true, he's put is money where his mouth is and put forth real effort into trying to address the issue that's important to him. What's he supposed to be doing differently?

 

Yeah... it's not like anything has been mentioned.

Fine, if you guys want a longer answer I'll say why I can't stand the guy. Going with the things I already mentioned...


Regardless of your feeling on the whole BLM thing, I'm going to hope you can see why wearing things like that is distasteful. Then he likes to wear this too.



This isn't the kind of stuff from civil rights heroes. It's the kind of stuff idiots wear, or as Kaepernick is so fond of saying "ignorant people".

Then there's the issue of his girlfriend tweeting about the ravens owner being like a slave owner, but I guess that's on his girlfriend and not him.

Then there's him whining about racism when he grew up. You would think, considering that every black person should have at least a couple experiences, he would have something of substance to point to. You would be wrong. His big terror was when he was at a motel the staff assumed he wasn't with his family. Gee, maybe it's because you were adopted and you look completely different from the rest of your family, you fucking moron. Of course the manager was super nervous in his version. Even though they only asked "Can I help you?" The horror.

He also had this to say about his protest:

So for him, yes, it is about disrespecting the flag and the country. The guy raised by white parents, making millions at the time, and has had to endure questions such as "Can I help you?" just can't stomach this country.

Ok, so there are issues that need to be resolved. A person who has benefited as much as him hating his country is kind of fucked up, but ok... at least there's something there right?

Then he goes on. He thinks there is no difference between the American and confederate flag. When even Huffpo thinks you're being stupid, it's pretty goddamned stupid. A black guy making millions vs a nation that started a war to keep people as slaves. No difference.

He also had this to tweet:

Well, since he's such a student of history, maybe he remembers the war? You know, the one where two groups of people sporting those two flags were fighting each other, primarily over a black rights issue?

I could go on. I'm not going to link every single thing the guy has said publicly that has been stupid. There's no shortage. Even if you haven't been actively following the story of his protests you've seen him do it at least a dozen times. The guy is fucking moron, who has never in his life (and I'm going by HIS accounts) experienced serious racism or been victimized.

And given that he's the kind of moron who goes around in Castro shirts and pig cop socks, I'm convinced he did it for the attention. Not in the "I want to help this cause" kind of way, but in the sense that he just wanted attention and wanted to feel self important. I'm sure it's at least partially the issue itself ---- but whatever. I don't like the guy. I think he's a complete clown. If liberals want to celebrate his idiocy then have at it.

 

We'll probably soon know the fallout.

"DirecTV is offering unprecedented refunds for those fans who want to cancel their NFL Sunday Ticket package, if they inform the company that they are doing so due to the recent protests during the national anthem, a source confirmed to ESPN."

 

Yeah, I agree that the socks and the Castro shirt were both terrible ideas that happened because he got too caught up in what he was doing and didn't really think them through. I'll even help you out and add on the biggest complaint would be not voting in the last election because he didn't see a difference between Trump and Hillary. That would have been fine if not for the fact it also meant he didn't vote on some California ballot measures aimed at rectifying some of the racial injustices in the judicial system. But, I also think that no matter what he did people would have found something wrong with it, because rather than have the conversation about what he is trying to bring to light we would rather avoid it and attack the messenger so that we don't need to try to solve what is actually going on.

He has actually shed attention during this, probably to his detriment. If he wanted attention he would be out speaking publicly and making himself a martyr. Instead, he is doing what everyone said to do - put his money where his mouth is. Donating his own money, as well as his time as cited by Audrey above.

This is also the same problem with everyone talking about kneeling during the anthem being disrespectful, it is just a distraction from the actual conversation he and others are trying to bring attention to. He's not a perfect person. Cool, we agree. He has said and done a bunch of dumb things, he has also donated his time and money to try to forward a worthwhile cause. But, apparently he should be happy that as a black man we've allowed him to make millions of dollars in our country and keep his mouth shut and entertain us.

 

Dude, the first thing he did was make himself a martyr. Way, way before any team wouldn't hire him.

That's a quote from him and he said some variation of that more times than I care to count.

And yes, he wanted attention. I'm just listening to him.

Maybe you think I'm reading into that a bit much. It's not quite as direct as his constant "if they take such and such away from me" statements, but ok, this whole thing isn't solely about Kaepernick's more questionable decisions and statements. But I am going to question this -

Come on guys. People have said this like twenty times in the last few pages and I have to ask, what planet do you live on? EVERYONE is talking about it. It has been talked about incessantly for the last few years. I've talked about it so much I wonder why I didn't devote that energy elsewhere. Sure, other things come up in the larger conversation around it, but the idea that people are dodging the topic or people haven't discussed it is kind of nuts. Republicans, liberals, independents, weirdos, you name it. If anything it has been given too much focus, in my opinion. Maybe a little more effort could be put towards considering how we improve infrastructure, trying to make sure kids have two parents, inner city economies and opportunities, more affordable higher education, and so on. Addressing those would probably make a bigger difference in people's lives, but it's not as juicy as a dead body or making things all about race... again.

Talking about it doesn't mean everyone instantly agrees and the problems go poof. As far as resolutions, it would probably help if the people who kept saying "I just want to have an honest conversation..." actually wanted to have an honest conversation. The tone is often more like "Shut the fuck up and accept whatever I say. The whole problem is institutionalized isms."

And the isms are part of the problem sure. But like I've said before, if you really want to make things better you can't just obsess about the isms(that of course doesn't mean don't address or talk about). I know the other things do get talked about, but they're dwarfed because again, just not as juicy.

 

Ok then. If talking, complaining, virtue-signaling, and all that is cheap while action is what counts, then why doesn't all the stuff Kaepernick count for more than all the talking, complaining, wearing socks, etc. stuff he does that you're shitting on him for? You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth; on one hand you're getting frustrated with all the talk because it doesn't accomplish real change, yet at the same time it counts for more than the actual community action he's doing. Why does he have to be perfect in order for you to respect him?