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Elephants and Jackasses...

Discussion in 'Permanent Threads' started by Nettdata, Oct 14, 2016.

  1. Rush-O-Matic

    Rush-O-Matic
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    If it's been published, the NY Times had an opportunity to say that in between these two paragraphs.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/27/us/politics/trump-tax-cut-plan-middle-class-deficit.html?mcubz=0
    And, the article also adds
    Hold the phone. The elderly are NOT children? This is the kind of hard-hitting journalism we are looking for.
     
  2. zzr

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    If you read the sentence with the antecedent of "who" as "dependents" rather than "elderly," it makes sense. To be correct the author should have uses dashes instead of commas, or switched the order of the clauses.
     
  3. Frebis

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    Wait, they kept the middle class the same and raised the tax on the poor? That is very republican of them.
     
  4. downndirty

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    $1.5 trillion in the red is the initial number I saw on how this will work out.

    Fiscally conservative somehow equates reasonable finance with fantasy, or at a minimum sending that bill onto the next (likely Democratic) administration.

    Lovely, let's cut taxes of people making more than $400k/year because trickle-down economics has worked so well since 1980, and that segment of the country isn't doing historically well.

    What I've read suggested this will be paid for by the elimination of tax loopholes and deductions, but no specifics.

    I think the key to tax reform is to eliminate the ways companies wiggle out of paying their fair share, and inevitably there will be broken eggs. So many businesses depend on their taxes being reliable, any major shake-up will result in closed doors, lost jobs and the worst "Trump-nomics" blame being put on this administration. But, it will level the playing field: Joe's Pizza shack can't afford the legion of lawyers that Papa John's can, and if there are no loopholes then it's a fair system. In other words, the rates don't matter as much as the ability to game the system, and the government isn't in a great spot to outsmart financial professionals at this point.

    In short, FFS...we tried this under Bush...and Bush...and Reagan....
     
    #4304 downndirty, Sep 27, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2017
  5. Kampf Trinker

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    Let's see what it look likes when we know all the details instead of just running with whatever bullshit MSNBC and CNN are saying. It probably sucks, but let's be sure first.

    Kind of have to laugh at democrats complaining about republican irresponsibility. Bush piled on the debt. Obama piled it on even more and just blamed Bush. For 8 years straight. At some point that stops working.
     
  6. Flat_Rate

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    I don't know if this is the right thread but thanks to the instability of the healthcare market thanks to the repeal and fail republicans my health insurance next year will be going from $100 a week for family coverage with decent deductibles and copays to $240 a week for triple the deductible, double copay and 0% co-insurance.

    Fuck. I can't tell you how angry I am right now.
     
  7. Nettdata

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    As a Canadian, all I can say is, “sorry to hear it.”
     
  8. Flat_Rate

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    Yeah it sucks, my supervisor spent the first 45 years of his life in Toronto and you would have thought his head was going to explode when they told us.
     
  9. Rush-O-Matic

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    Maybe I don't understand what you're saying. But, neither of those appear to be correct based on the broad outline released yesterday and last year's brackets. I guess Congress could dramatically change those. But, based on this calculator the middle class is currently taxed at 25 - 28%. Under the new plan it would be 25%.

    And, two poorest brackets are taxed from 10 - 15%, changing to 12%, but those in the 10% make less than $9,325 / year. Their standard deduction doubles in each case to greater than their income, so I'm not sure how it raises taxes on the poor. And, these same deductions are allowed for the middle class. So, those taxed at 25% and staying at 25% would also be taxed less.

    upload_2017-9-28_9-7-36.png

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive...-explain-the-republican-tax-plan.html?mcubz=0
     
  10. bewildered

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    Were elderly non working family members who live with you not able to be counted as a dependant before? If not then the new rule looks like a change for the better.
     
  11. Kubla Kahn

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    If there is anything more incomprehensible to me than health insurance economics, it's the tax code.
     
  12. Rush-O-Matic

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    I'm not sure that's clear yet. I believe you could already claim an elderly person as a dependent (they don't have to live with you), but this appears to add a $500 credit to the existing structure for those who live with you.
     
  13. Kampf Trinker

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    This makes me quite happy. Senator Menendez (D-New Jersey) is on trial for corruption charges. They need to start hitting more of these guys. Only way to make it stop in my opinion.

    As for the guy on trial with him, who gave him all the bribes -

    Also, worth noting -

    That said his seat is up for re-election next year. For you hardcore liberals who think do nothing Trump is the worst thing ever, I still wouldn't worry that much. If they can't get jack shit done now one seat probably won't change much. However, if the next election cycle turns out poorly for the left, watch out.

    Menendez could be looking at as much as 15 years in prison. They better not give him some bullshit like 8 months house arrest. Hardly a deterrent for other politicians. You know they will though...
     
  14. Kampf Trinker

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    This seriously sounds like they just jacked up the premiums and used that as an excuse. Why would they have to increase them, especially that much when NOTHING has been passed? Obviously I don't know all the details, but that sounds really fishy to me.

    It hits a point where you wonder if it is even worth it to have insurance at all. You're looking at what? $12k a year with high deductibles on top? I don't know your situation, but I would honestly just say fuck it at that point and pay everything out of pocket. It's a risk of course, in case something catastrophic does happen, but goddamn.

    But of course we can't afford public health care. It's so expensive it costs half as much! We can't fucking afford private care is more like it.
     
  15. Crown Royal

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    Just call me Topher

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    Somebody who would single-handedly rob Medicaid of over $100 million should be treated as an unrepentant serial killer would.
     
  16. Flat_Rate

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    I'd say that the current market has nothing to do with it but for the last 6 years the rate has stayed the same, hell last year it went down 15 bucks.

    I make a decent hourly rate and this hurts my take home pretty hard, I can't imagine the guys and gals who work here that don't make but 14 or so an hour, they'll have to just drop the insurance.

    No way they can swing 240 a week.
     
  17. Hoosiermess

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    I don't have links to support this but locally I know that there have been massive increases in the exchanges because insurance companies are dropping out. They claim they are losing so much money with these plans because companies haven't dropped their private plans and the younger/healthier people were not getting insurance (they keep punting on the penalties for not signing up). I know I had planned to drop our insurance and give everyone a raise based on what I had been paying monthly for their insurance but because we continue to be grandfathered in on our current plan and haven't had massive increases, I've kept our private insurance. From what I can see it's still cheaper and better than most of the plans offered on the exchange.
     
  18. downndirty

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    I'm facing the devil's choice of going without and trying not have anything catastrophic or joining the exchange. It's fucking ludicrous.

    My employee sponsored plan went from a $4000 deductible (for me, as a single 33 year old dude with no kids/dependents/health issues) to a $6600 deductible and a 15% increase in cost. That's not really "access to healthcare" as it is "medical catastrophe insurance". I can't afford the prescribed asthma meds ($458/month for ONE medication) because prescription meds are bafflingly not covered. So, in some cases, I literally cannot afford to breathe.

    This whole racket is filled with people that I hope go to hell and get their testicles chewed on by vipers with teeth made of fire.
     
  19. Rush-O-Matic

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    +1

    I have never more fully supported a sentence typed on this message board than this right here.

    The people paying the premiums, especially us small business owners, are getting ass raped. The politicians making the rules don't have to abide by them. The insurance companies are making tons of money. The doctors and caregivers have to hire more people to deal with bureaucracy and can barely focus on actual care. The poor people are no better off for care than they were 10 years ago. imho

    I hope all of the leaders and lobbyists that got us to this point get fucked in Hell with long, rusty, razor bladed-loaded poles.
     
  20. bewildered

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    Anecdotally I experienced the same thing when I had health insurance through the exchange. I was bartending and waiting tables so I purchased coverage through the marketplace. At first the coverage was great, but every year the premium went up and the deductible went up and what it covered went down. Towards the end I was paying about $410 a month for only myself because my husband did not qualify to be on my plan due to some shitty loopholes with so-called VA "coverage." My deductible, and that was sinle with no children, was about $5,600. This was 2 years ago. The real shity part was that I was paying a little less to start, but it was difficult to afford on how much I was making at the time, so I got a second job to afford it and my subsidy went down so a big chunk of what I was making went right back towards paying for health insurance.

    My podiatrist (yay seeded corns due to being on my feet 50+ hrs a week) just charged me his regular office fee because my co-pay was more than his office fee. I may have been able to keep my original cost and coverage, but the information coming from the marketplace was crappy. They made it sound like you had to sign up every year for a new plan. In any event, the insurance I had was essentially catastrophic coverage. The funny thing was, the so-called catastrophic plan that was offered on the marketplace was not eligible to be taken and used with your subsidy.

    Luckily for me, I am currently a state employee and have pretty good insurance for a very low cost. With pretty much any other job I would be feeling the effects of the insurance hikes. I feel for you guys.