Elephants and Jackasses...

The way Tweeden described the kiss sounded pretty cringe worthy, but the outrage over Franken 'groping' her breasts over the flak vest is just dumb. That's at worst a joke in bad taste. That's not sexual assault.

It's refreshing to see O'Neill decided not to backpedal and acknowledged that there is a difference between 'this guy fucked up' and 'needs to be set on fire and clubbed to death'. I swear, the way the narrative goes at times you would almost think people are equating rape to a situation where a woman felt uncomfortable. What exactly does "unwanted sexual attention" even mean?

Hopefully once the witch hunt dies down the changes will be for the better. Maybe women will be encouraged to report crimes when they happen instead of 3 decades later...

 

I'm not saying it wasn't inappropriate, I'm saying the hyperbole describing the situation is severely confusing what happened. I can see how my post might have come across that way, but I'm not meaning to defend Franken as if his indiscretions are a non-issue. That said, I think it's telling that Tweeden went out of her way to say she isn't calling for him to step down.

 

Another one comes forward.

 

Do you feel the same way about Michael Richards? I don't even care that much about the Tosh thing -- I actually understand the spirit in which it was intended, even though I think the execution was terrible and caused the offensiveness -- but the idea that comedians can "say anything" to a heckler seems wrong to me. If you think that Michael Richards was over the line, I think it should be easy to see how somebody else could think Tosh was.

Franken should either resign or make it clear that he won't be seeking reelection.

Bill O'Neill is a ridiculous and cringe-worthy human being but there's nothing inherently offensive about absolutely slaying puss in a hayloft.

 

Richards was some sort of weird tantrum anomaly. Over the line because I don’t know WHAT the fuck that boiled-over ragefest was. And he’s one of the worst stand-up acts ever.

...but there’s also such thing as a funny rape joke, and If it hits too hard to home it doesn’t take a lot of effort to NOT listen to it. And just as people shouldn’t get to argue science with the scientist, people don’t get to tell comedians what’s funny and interrupt performances. And to quote Patrice: “You don’t find it funny? Leave, faggot. And fuck your mother on the way out the door.” ...and everyone else laughed.

 

Patrice O'Neal was incredibly overrated, this is my take.

Anyway, my point is that clearly there's a line when it comes to responding to a heckler. Also, it's perfectly reasonable to call out comedians who suck, or that are doing a bad job.

 

I'm not sure there is a line, or at least not one be all end all line. It's different for everyone and as such there should be some leeway for comedians who go to the furthest extreme in assuming that their audience is made up of adults who can take a joke. Also, if it's perfectly reasonable to call out comedians who suck, it's also perfectly reasonable to call out audience members who suck.

 

You can call out comedians who are doing a bad job maybe on social media or tell them to their face if they do a meet and greet after. But to heckle and ruin a show just sucks, especially if the audience is generally having a good time. If the comedian is bombing, let them bomb. Not getting any laughs is more damaging to a comedian’s psyche than an asshole audience member yelling drunken shit from their seats.

 

Oh, I agree that heckling is stupid, I more meant writing blog posts afterwards. Tosh tells a joke, that's his right. Somebody who was at his show says "hey Tosh sucks and his jokes are lazy," that's their right. Comedians tend to whine way too much about political correctness, but interrupting everybody else in the middle of the show is basically the very worst way to go about proving your point.

Yeah, I just think Tosh did it in a lazy way that I can easily see why somebody would have been offended at.

For comparison's sake, Jimmy Carr is very effective at handling hecklers, in no small part because he just lets them talk and they're completely unprepared for it. Also he has a microphone.

 

By and large the idea of safe spaces is completely misunderstood by the people who denigrate them.

Are there dumb college kids? Yes, almost all of them, so they're obviously going to have bad opinions. But the idea of safe spaces qua safe spaces is a worthwhile one.

The idea of safe spaces, particularly in their conception, has nothing to do with people not being allowed to say offensive things on stage. It's more the idea that people -- particularly minorities -- do better when they have spaces where they can discuss issues that pertain to them without harassment. That's it! As a matter of fact, we do something similar on this board. There are rules of engagement here, and if you don't like it, you're banned.

If you're a young gay kid on a college campus, I think it's overall a positive thing to have a place where you can hang out and discuss your issues, without having to give equal time to people that think you're going to hell. Or if you're a young Muslim kid, to have a place where you can talk without having to argue with somebody that thinks you want to institute sharia law just because you don't eat pork. Shows like South Park really do a disservice to what is at its core a very reasonable idea.

 

I was under the impression that they started and escalated by handing bullhorns to the special ed kids.

Spoiler